Water Parameter Woes

[Arinon]

The story so far…

Tank: 75 gallons
Substrate: 2 parts PFS to 1 part Black Moon Sand
Temperature: 78-79

Source water is well water through a water softener using softening salt. Parameters as tested on Day 0
PH: 7.3 NH3: 0.0 NitrIte/NitrAte: 0.0 gH: ~40ppm kH: ~60ppm

Day 1- 6 Zebra Danios added @6 inchs of fish
Day 4- pH: 7.8 NH3: 0.0
Day 7- pH: 7.8 NH3: 0.0
Day 8- 5 SAE added @~13 inches of fish Added small piece of local driftwood (soaked for a couple weeks then boiled)
Day 10- pH 7.9 NH3: Trace
Day 14- pH 7.9 NH3: Trace
Day 16- 7 Peppered Cory Cats added @~20 inches of fish. Added a few Hornwort and a Java Fern
Day 19- pH 7.9 NH3: 1.0 NO2: 0.5 25% PWC Added a large handful of gravel in a stocking from established tank.

Let me start by saying that if I didn’t have any testing kits I would be perfectly happy with my progress so far. Haven’t lost any fish, and they appear quite active, are eating and exploring, and school occasionally but not all the time. So I get the impression that they aren’t very stressed. But sinse it looked at this point like I was heading into the second part of cycling and more water changes I wanted to do another round of full testing. Here is where things get depressing.

Day 21- pH 8.0 NH3: ~0.8 NO2: ~2.5 NO3: ~2.0 gH: ~40ppm kH: Off the scale!!!

The carbonate hardness was well over 200, I stopped added reagent at that point. Ok back to the source water. Tried both directly from tap and standing overnight.

pH 6.2!! NH3: 0.0 NO2: 0.0 NO3: 0.0 gH: ~40 ppm kH: Off the scale again.

So now I’m just confused and unsure what I should be doing. Clearly I will have to keep changing water but I’m a bit concerned about what could happen. I’m using the Hagen Master and NO3 test kits and I’m reasonably confident that they are reading correctly. I have an RO unit for drinking water and the tests behave as expected on that, or on mixes with the source water. The softner is still working and has salt in it but I’m not really familiar with what it actually does or is supposed to do to the water chemisty aside from the obvious. I’ll have to test the well water tommorow and see what is going into the softner itself. I don’t really wanna use that as the source water as it’s from outside faucets that freeze in the winter.

The other weird thing is my pH is pretty high given all the rest of the factors. Seems to me it should be lower. I do have some rocks in the tank, all of which passed the ‘vinegar test’ fine, but I’m no geologist so they may be doing something I don’t want as well.

Any pointers guys?

 

[Zagz]

Ph being constant is more important than an ideal ph IMO. During a cycle your ph may be higher.Keep up with the water changes and monitor things.I wouldn't worry too much about things except ammonia and nitrite. I rarely test for hardness so I can't comment on that part of your test results.

 

[7Enigma]

OK, here's what I see:

-you need to do a PWC because your ammonia is higher than we would like to see, but more importantly your nitrIte levels are VERY high. Do at least a 50% PWC as soon as you read this.

-how many water changes have you done so far? I'm concerned about your nitrAte level, but know with most tests this low on the scale they are not accurate.

-your tap pH is odd since KH is the buffering capacity of your water, and you have reported it is very high (ie off the scale). One would expect the tap pH to be over 8, and this would explain your high tank pH. I'm almost positive it is due to the water treatment, and its possible that the salts use are giving a false reading on KH (ie it might be a salt that is detected by the KH test, but in fact has no buffering capacity). Your GH level shows that you water is quite soft, and if in fact the KH test is being affected, your pH6.2 tap water is understandable.

Do me a favor. At your next PWC (which should be when you read this ), fill up a bucket with about 5gallons of tap water. Test the pH. Then add it 1/4-1/2 teaspoon baking soda, and mix in. Now test your tap water again. I'll be willing to bet the addition of this small amount of "true" KH buffering will bring your tap pH up to 7.0.

If you find this works, then after the cycle is finished if you notice your tank pH always staying close to 6.2, you can decide whether you want to buffer the pH of the tank at each water change with baking soda like a lot of us do (done in planted tanks frequently).

 

[Arinon]

Since Day 19 I've been running 25-30% PWC every other day. Its not the work involved that worries me, but the potential to change things like pH and KH really quickly if I do something like 50% every day.

I checked the water right from the well (before it hits the softer) and its at ~7.2

Day 21 23 and 25 (today) were all 25% PWC days.

Just today I tested the tank (pre PWC)

pH: 7.9 NH3: ~0.3 NO2: ~2.7 So I think the ammonia is taken care of now.

I'll have to try the baking soda thing as that would explain why I'm seeing 'hard water' test results out of a water softner. But why would my tank be up at almost 8.0 pH?

Thanks 7Enigma

 

[7Enigma]

Due to the salts that the water softener adds to make the water "feel" better.

As for worrying about pH and KH fluctuations DON'T. It's a matter of choosing the lesser evil, and that will always be the OTHER thing when talking about ammonia and nitrIte. Trust me, your fish will much rather prefer being able to breath over a pH/KH change.

 

[Arinon]

Ok another 30% change today, still reasonably high nitrites so looks like the changes will be daily for a while.

Was really rough on the soda test but filled large bucket and added the soda. Before pH was 6.0-6.4 (damn test has really close colours in this range) after soda was very close to 7.0

So what do I take away from all this?

I have soft water (gH) and not a whole lot of buffering (kH) despite test readings?

So while cycling I don’t really care aside from Nitrites till that is done, after that the tank pH will drop?

 

[7Enigma]

You got it.

How much water was in the bucket and how much baking soda did you add?

If the bucket was 5gallons or larger and you added 1/4tsp of baking soda and saw an increase as large as you did (close to 6.0 to close to 7.0) I would say that your KH value is not what the tests are showing.

And yes, while cycling the most important thing is the nitrIte levels. Anytime they are high, do a PWC, and it will also drop your tank pH.