Wigglers At Last!!!!!

[Autumnsky]

so my surprise wigglers became swimmers yesterday! they are soo awesome! already i can see variation in color with some being almost black, and others clear (im guessing they will be golds?) and my juvies are growing nicely since being moved to the divided side of the 55 when i gave the males each their own tank and will cycle females through to get variety. i really wish i could find a camera to show everyone the amazing fins on one of my first ever babies! pretty sure is a super veil.

Congrats, will love to see the new babies!!!

 

[Andy Sager]

That makes sense now! Building with extra electrical!!! Building, Building, Building, Buil-ding! And new electrical!!! Because electrical in older ones can be scary too, and small service panels, because all you needed was a toaster and a couple lights! ...but rolling gently on the floor!

Yes, new building means new electric as well, and I will need a lot of outlets for the heaters. lol (I'm looking into an ac/heat unit for the place to eliminate all the heaters.) But for now, I have to put up with creaking floors and cold nights and babies in bottles for extended amounts of time. ( The fish are starting to sprout their wings in one bottle. )
Forget the "more tanks" cheer, I've graduated to "More space, more space, I need MORE SPACE!!!!!! "

 

[Autumnsky]

Yes, new building means new electric as well, and I will need a lot of outlets for the heaters. lol (I'm looking into an ac/heat unit for the place to eliminate all the heaters.) But for now, I have to put up with creaking floors and cold nights and babies in bottles for extended amounts of time. ( The fish are starting to sprout their wings in one bottle. )
Forget the "more tanks" cheer, I've graduated to "More space, more space, I need MORE SPACE!!!!!! "

It is all for the babies! Anything for them

 

[Andy Sager]

It is all for the babies! Anything for them

UP to a point. The wallet makes the final decision.

 

[delfisherman]

Yeah money always gets in the way of keeping these fish. im running into the need more room syndrome. My breeding pair has produced 3 spawns and i have the two oldest spawns in one tank and 1/2-3/4 of the newest in another tank and i left some babies in with the parwnts and its neat watching the parents raise them.

 

[Andy Sager]

Yeah money always gets in the way of keeping these fish. im running into the need more room syndrome. My breeding pair has produced 3 spawns and i have the two oldest spawns in one tank and 1/2-3/4 of the newest in another tank and i left some babies in with the parwnts and its neat watching the parents raise them.

I understand I was forced to do something I would never do unless it was an emergency.... I had to dump my last large Koi angel in with the babies from the video on page 199 (post #1983) and hope for the best. Thankfully, the tank was being enclosed in styro soon after and kept dark overnight against the cold so the fish had a chance to just sleep. This morning, when I opened the lid, everybody was still doing okay. We'll see how long that lasts
As for money, yes keeping any pet can be expensive. That's how I became familiar with breeding so many different animals. If I wanted them as pets, I needed to have them pay for themselves. Babies make the easiest way to do that. Only proper care leads to babies. ( I tried to train them for a circus but they really didn't want to perform in front of an audience. ) So I've bred Dogs, Guinea pigs, Canaries, Parakeets, Finches, Cockatiels, Rabbits, Hamsters, Gerbils, Rats, Mice, Snakes, Lizards, Fish, Ducks, Geese and my most prized accomplishment, my Squirrel Monkey Charlie. ( and that's just the list off the top of my head. lol I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.)

So I knew what I was getting back in to

 

[Mr Fisher]

my guys definitely had some kind of worms. Have several dead worms stuck on the prefilter of my HOB. I also have one that may have hemorrhagic septicemia, so I'm treating them all with API triple sulfa. The worse one seems to be doing better since he's coming out the corner and schooling now. Kinda annoyed with having these problems out the gate.

 

[Kelly5978]

So....it IS unusual for death to occur in the wiggler stage, versus the egg stage? Did I read that correctly?

 

[1998golfer]

Hey Andy here is what you need for your fish room... http://cosprings.craigslist.org/for/4294911091.html

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[oscarchic11]

So....it IS unusual for death to occur in the wiggler stage, versus the egg stage? Did I read that correctly?

both when raising wigglers away from parents, and with parents a few have always been lost, usually would have had some deformity or another when this happens. but losing a bunch of wigglers, or all, is unusual and usually has a cause (parameter changes, ammonia spikes, sudden temp change) and can also be avoided the next time in most cases. why do you ask?

 

[Kelly5978]

I'm experimenting with eggs/wigglers. I'm pretty sure my actual water (not the parameters, but the tap water here in general) is the problem....or, something I'm doing wrong. Andy is a tremendous help! My issues started with free swimming fry never living past 3 days. The next few batches, the wigglers would develop (I could see their fins, gills, etc) but never left the tank floor. I have 3 breeding pair of angels, with a total of 10 spawns between them. But...not one baby has survived. I've left them with parents, and pulled them. I've tried so many things. I'm currently experimenting with pulling them immediately, and putting them in spring water. I had 300+ wigglers (the most so far). On day 5-6 a bunch turned white. And a few of the still wiggling look like their tails are turning white. I was shocked, since things were going so well. I test the main tanks water daily, and never have ammonia. The pulled eggs are in m.blue, spring water and prime with airstone and heater. I have 2 different wiggler tanks set up, and both had a lot of casualties on the same day. I'm just waiting for them to swim....and I can start changing water. Just shocked me when so many survived so long, just to perish at the last moment. I have a thread going with the experiment outlined. Andy is doing his best to help. Maybe there really is just something wrong with all 3 sets of parents (even though they were purchased at different times, and one pair produced for the previous owner). If I can't figure out the problem, I guess I will just admit failure. ?

 

[oscarchic11]

have you tried swapping pairs around? or just rain water, boiled, with prime and no m. blue? i think andy did this and it worked... i let my parents care for fry til they start swimming usually, this last spawn i pulled fry about 2 days post hatch as i wasnt sure of age and know they would be going to my sis in laws with me. hope you can find something that works!

 

[Kelly5978]

Me too. It just doesn't rain much here. And, I thought the m.blue was to prevent fungus, but it almost looks like it's spreading anyways. I want to take the dead out, but I'm so afraid to mess anything up! The time I left them with parents to raise, they lived 3 days free swimming. They ate. They grew. It wS awesome. The 4th morning, the mom frantically found 6 babies in the gravel. She put them on a leaf, but they never swam again. I found the rest dead in gravel in the next water change. I have since removed all gravel, but I kept a few fry alive from the next spawn, and they lived for weeks on the tank bottom. They just didn't swim, and died after 2 weeks. It's making me crazy that I just can't figure this out!!!! I noticed a few wigglers whose tails looked really white, and they next day, their whole bodies were. Does that sound like spreading fungus? I owe a lot to Andy, for putting up with my million questions and helping me try to find the problem. I just get so frustrated! If water is the problem, then why are there less dead eggs/wigglers in the main tank (with parents)? I trust Andy, and really hope this works. If it doesn't, I'm sure he'll help me try something else. He's an awesome teacher. I don't think I could switch out pairs, cause they were all together to begin with, and paired off. They don't really like any other angel besides their mates. Do you remove white eggs? I just wish I had a steady enough hand to do that. I see 1 white wiggler, then the next day....there are 7 more that were next to it. Doesn't that mean fungus is spreading? And, so many of them fell to the bottom. If it rains anytime soon, I'm collecting it!!!! I used bottled spring this time, but I think rain should be the next type I try. Sorry for the long posts. Very frustrated, and feel so helpless!

 

[Karay]

They tend to turn white when they die. I don't think its a fungus. When you mentioned spring water what is that exactly? I think of bottled water. You are not alone. This time last year I had tons of angels coming out of my ears. To slow things down I began to let the parents raise the young. My koi parents basically never got it until the fall. My silvers got it do pat the first time out. I made a change by removing the gravel and since then have not gotten a successful spawn since. I lost my koi female since then. My silvers still spawn so I decided to pull the slate. They reach wiggler stage, about to free swim and mass death. Going to try distilled water next.

 

[oscarchic11]

ive had wigglers live on the bottom just fine. i figured out extra flow, like from an airstone, and a good light helps stimulate them to swim after wiggling stage. and the next morning, when everyone is huddled i do my first wc. making sure to clean up any who didnt survive the night. i have removed dead eggs with a toothpick before. but ive never had an issue with egg eating or anything with the fish i have now so i let them do the hard part. ive now raised fry from 2 pairs, and tho ive had a had time getting a good yield i know its because of myself not having the time to care for them for a bit as i was working. i still am, but i babysit for my sis in law so i just have the fry tank at her house. hope you find a solution soon!

 

[Karay]

On a different note if you remember my latest angel is the marble veil. Well I'm almost 100% sure that "he" is a she. There is a very large bulge on her indicating eggs. I do believe I'm seeing her tube beginning to come out. Also she's sharing a planted tank which a confirmed male silver pearlscale and they have been congregating around the filter intake tube and he's been busy cleaning it. Well there's no way I'm having any of that so I slipped an abs piece pipe overtop of it. Either they spawn on that or the slate I provided. 5 min later they moved to the slate. We shall see what the next couple of days shall bring. I'm not sure of the colour combination though and I can say I would prefer her to mate with another veil.

 

[Kelly5978]

Are you saying the spring water worked with the fry (you had coming out of your ears?) I'm using ice mountain spring water, with a little distilled. I called ice mountain, and was told there are no additives. It's spring water filtered through carbon and micron1 filter. That's it. I'm confused why the individual bottles test at a much higher gh/kh than the 3 liter jugs, but I just mix both with distilled to get kh-2, gh-3. I always worry after a bunch die, that it's ammonia (they were laid on algae covered leaves....). And all the breeders start water changes at the wiggler stage. But, Andy explained ammonia within a week isn't likely, and I'll have better luck removing the m.blue with carbon...and doing first water change after their first meal. I just want them to swim! I've been trying at this for months. They're so amazing as they develop! I want to see them actually grow up! I thought about using distilled, but there was some question as to whether the fry wouldn't get the nutrients/minerals from the water that they need to grow. If this, and the rain I try next, don't work, I'll try straight distilled also. I'm willing to try anything to make this work (you wouldn't believe the time I've spent researching and the money I've spent on products....vita-chem, fresh trace....u name it, I probably bought it).
To the last comment: sounds like you'll have some really pretty angels out of that combo!

 

[Karay]

No I haven't tried distilled water yet. When I had fry coming out of my ears it was regular tap water that was treated with conditioner and aged a minimum of 48 hours. Oh man! I've been using the tank water they were spawned. Ok now I feel foolish! Can't believe in less than a year I've forgotten what to do. FYI rain water is essentially distilled water. Distilled bottled water can be purchased from the grocery store. Don't worry too much about the lack of minerals because as they grow you'll start to use tap water that's been treated with conditioner (I suggest Seachem Prime) and had been aged.

 

[Kelly5978]

Oh, and to explain, I did let the first pair try to raise their first 4 spawns. It was weird! First time, they all swam, but got eaten by a tank mate. I divided the pair, and the second spawn, they swam for 3 days (I described that a min ago)...they all stopped swimming on day 3 and died in the gravel. The 3rd spawn, they digressed, and only 60 of 400 became wigglers. They died before swimming. 4th, I pulled the eggs, but used tank water for the egg tank....no swimmers again. So, they went from doing better each time, to worse every time. Either I'm doing something wrong, and they aren't getting something they need....or there's a prob with the water. That's why I'm experimenting with much softer water that doesn't have any tap. The main tank (with 2 of the 3 pair's) is kh-3, gh-6-7. I am hoping the harder water might be the issue (or something in the tap water here). That's why I'm in shocked that the 60 eggs in the main tank (I pulled too soon and they laid more) have all stayed amber so far. They all have tails, whereas 1/2 of the pulled have turned white! Sorry to be confusing. As I said I have 3 pair laying eggs. I'm speaking of my black/gold pair now. The day 6 wigglers are the marble pair's, and in a diff tank. Trying so many things....cause I really want these babies!

 

[Kelly5978]

Thanks. That's exactly what Andy instructed. The only thing I may have messed up is using prime from the start. We'll see. Please, everyone cross fingers for me! I'm sick of feeling like a failure!!!!