Advice on feeding

[HB87]

Hi. This is my first post here and I'm not sure if this is where it should go? My apologies if it isnt.

I am relatively new to aquariums. I grew up around them but never knew the full extent of what went into maintaining one. I have a Red Devil. I've had him/her about 2 monthes. I didnt really look into or research much until recently (stupid I know but i'm new to this) I have him in a temp tank while i'm saving for a larger tank which I will have soon. I've been feeding him pellets and he had no problems eating them until 3 days ago. He just lets them sink and I have to clean them out. I read he eats other things besides just pellets and i'm wondering if I need to adjust his diet to get him to eat? And if so what do I need to be feeding him?

I know that these are basic things I should have researched sooner but I went by what the pet store said and assumed they knew their stuff. Any advice would be helpful. I'm really starting to worry..

Thanks all

 

[IvanMike]

Cehck your water parameters (ammonia and nitrite) a LFS will do this for you. did you cycle your tank? My first guess is the tank isn't cycled and he's having issues with high ammonia. If so, do massive water changes every day till the tank is cycled.

Actually, for a fish like a RD, 50-80% water changes a week (with dechlorinator, gravel vacuuming and rinsing the filter media in old tank water and re-using it) are not out of the question and keep them happy. What kind of pellets are you feeding him? What size tank? How long is the fish? What kind of filter(s) are you using? What's the tank temperature?

FWIW, for finicky fish, a slight increase in temp and a week of no feeding gets them to eat just about anything - however, I would check your water parameters first, and see if he displays any other odd symptoms.

 

[HB87]

Thank you for replying.

I have him in a 30 maybe? Im not sure. I know its too small though. As far as cycling and checking temps ect I didnt know any of that until recently. I did a water change (50%) 4 days ago and thats when the not eating began. I have been feeding him Spectra Max Cichlid Pellets. The woman at the pet store said that was what was best for him. She also had me use Amquel after the water change (this was the first time using it) so im not sure if that could be why theres a change now? I'd say he/she is about 5 inches maybe 6. The filter I have is what came with the tank. Im new to aquariums so im not sure on names or anything. I need any advice I can get really... Im extremely confused...

 

[IvanMike]

what were you using before when you did water changes? (unless you have well water, you need to use a dechlorinator each time when changing water to not kill the fish). If you don't use chlorinated city water, then you don't need to. In any event, you use dechlorinator when you put the new water in - not after. (Amquel is simply a brand of dechlorinator that's supposed to work better on chloramines, which not all city water supplies have - she probably had you buy it because it's more expensive than Novaqua or stress coat). How often did you do water changes before this one? did you use a bucket or hose that has been used with soap or detergents or any other chemicals to put new water into the tank?

Measure the tank (right to left, front to back, and top to bottom) in inches and post here - we can tell you what the size is in gallons. (a 30 is 3 feet long, 12-13 inches front to back, and um....16 deep..could be wrong about the depth - lol)

Take a picture of the filter or describe it. It probably has a name and model printed on it somewhere.

 

[HB87]

I was changing water about once every 2 weeks. I dont know if thats good or bad? Ive always used the water from the sink by the pitcher to change it. Before amquel I was using the stress stuff (i believe the one you mentioned) and I threw the bottle out and didnt remember the name... The filter says Top Fin 30 on it. It came with the tank in one of those kits.. It was my moms tank and thats where she said it came from. Im new to the water testing and all those things. I was told nothing when I got the fish other than feed him the pellets and change water. I wanted to educate myself on what the fish needs and thats when a larger tank, proper water ect was learned. Im sorry for being so vague... I really dont know alot yet. I will measure the tank and post back shortly.

 

[IvanMike]

Cool- Skip using the pitcher and get a dedicated bucket and hose for it. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the orange buckets they sell at home depot won't leach toxic stuff into the water, but others may chime in who know better (i've had the same buckets for 20 years so I'm not up on buckets). As far as the hose, get one from the LFS that has a gravel vacuum on it. This is a clear plastic cylinder that is of a much larger diameter than the hose (usually 1/2" hose is used). It has a nipple like part on one end that you slide the hose over. When you suck on the other end of the hose to start the siphon, stick the large cylinder in the water and right in the gravel. The gravel will wiggle around a bit, but not get sucked up, but all kinds of "crap" that's stuck in it will.

Amquel seems to be the only new thing that's going on, but I've never heard of any fish having an issue with it. any chance you threw out the old filter media in the Top fin at the same time and put in a new one?

 

[HB87]

Actually you know what, I did. I just remembered I changed the filter cartridge for the first time when I did this last water change. Could that be the problem? Ohh, and thank you for the tip... I will look into buying one of those next time i'm at the petstore. Im about 2 weeks away from getting a 55 gallon (or larger) so I can pick one up then.

 

[IvanMike]

Okie Dokie - Good chance you have an ammonia and or nitrite spike in your tank now. Filter media should be used until it's falling apart. Just rinse it off in the old tank water (not tap water) each water change to get rid of the solid crap on it. The filter media is where all the good bacteria live that eat the ammonia your fish produce, and also the other good bacteria that turn the poisonous nitrite the first kind of bacteria produce into relatively harmless nitrate.

I really hate filters like the top fin, whisper, etc that have those thin pads that clog up really easily so you keep "needing" to buy more. I actually bought some oversized foam blocks for aquaclear and/or fluval filters and cut them to size to fit in my whisper filters back when I had them. In any event, you don't need to run out and buy a new filter, just saying that you probably tossed the good bacteria and are now having an issue with ammonia and nitrite.

Go get an old nylon stocking (or to to a payless shoe store and get these little mini nylons they have free for trying shoes on). Rinse it off a bunch to get any soap off of it (if it's an old nylon it might, and the new ones may have manufacturing residue on them) Fill this with gravel from your tank. Tie it off and squeeze it between the new filter cartridge and the side of the top fin filter. The gravel has good bacteria all over it - Moving a lot of water over it should help filter out the ammonia and nitrite and also help colonize the new filter pad.

I would go ahead and do this if you have a stocking around, and bring a water sample to the local fish store for them to test for ammonia and nitrite before you throw the stocking in. DONT BUY ANYTHING - they will probably tell you that you need 37.50 worth of stuff to alter the ammonia, change the Ph, etc...just smile. (Ok if you don't have a test kit for ammonia and nitrite you could use one of those, but get the liquid kind, and if you have $$ issues I'd hold off unless they're telling you that you have really high ammonia and nitrite levels, as then you need to test pretty frequently till you knock this out). If you have ammonia and/or nitrite (any) in the tank water then I'm 99% sure it's the filter pad you tossed and the gravel in a stocking should help.

Next - don't feed the fish AT ALL, and do a couple of back to back water changes - big ones 50% or more to get out most of the ammonia. Test the water daily, keep up the changes till the ammonia and nitrite are gone, then resume changing water every week. (BTW, sometimes the gravel in the stocking method works within a day or 2).

 

[HB87]

Okay THANK YOU I will try that. I hope I didnt cause any serious harm??? I will post back here with any changes.

 

[IvanMike]

Probably not - and that's if in fact that's what's wrong. I'm betting it is as cichlids sulk when water conditions aren't right. I would definitely do the gravel in the filter trick and a water change ASAP even if you can't get to the fish store today to test yer water (of course if you have an ammonia nitrite test kit, then test now).

Oh by the way, if the filter cartridge for the top fin is the kind that opens up on top so it's like a little bag, just dump gravel in there - a good handfull.

 

[HB87]

Okay... I'm about to go ahead and do it now. I dont have a test kit. We had strips but they are all gone. He is as active as ever but just refuses to eat. He still acts the way he always has when he would wanna eat but he just wont take the pellets. The pet store had recommended bloodworms or flakes but havent tried those yet. But anyways, I will do the water change/gravel in filter that you suggested... Thanks agian for the help. I appreciate it alot.

 

[TheCrazyFishLady]

Did you rearrange anything? I'm not too sure on how picky red devil's are, but I know the more intelligent cichlids will get depressed if you mess with their tank too much. Could be a drastic temperature change too. Do you get the new water the same temperature before you put it in?

 

[TheCrazyFishLady]

Okay... I'm about to go ahead and do it now. I dont have a test kit. We had strips but they are all gone. He is as active as ever but just refuses to eat. He still acts the way he always has when he would wanna eat but he just wont take the pellets. The pet store had recommended bloodworms or flakes but havent tried those yet. But anyways, I will do the water change/gravel in filter that you suggested... Thanks agian for the help. I appreciate it alot.

Blood worms should be a treat (weekly or so) and flakes cause bloating. What kind of pellet are you using? And it helps to switch around to different brands every few days. I jhave four different types of cichlid pellets for my FH to keep him interested.

 

[IvanMike]

Blood worms should be a treat (weekly or so) and flakes cause bloating. What kind of pellet are you using? And it helps to switch around to different brands every few days. I jhave four different types of cichlid pellets for my FH to keep him interested.

Very good advice - keep in mind the pet store wants to sell you stuff as they want to be able to eat.

I hope I'm right and it's not something else - the fact that he acts the same otherwise is a bit troubling, usually with nitrogen cycle problems they just sulk. I doubt a red devil would care too hard if you rearranged the tank - most of the devils I've known had all the gravel piled up in one corner and loved it if you spread it around so they could do it again!

Otherwise usually when you encounter a picky eater that's a cichlid, it's the red devil that will only eat feeders, the discus that only wants blackworms - all live food that the fish have trained their owners to give them. IME most cichlids eat just about anything once they get the hang of prepared food.

 

[HB87]

I try and get the water as close to the same temp as possible. I have fed him TetraMax Premium Cichlid Pellets since I got him (thats what they had been feeding him) I did even back out his gravel but he just messes it back up every time lol so I dont think thats an issue. I did the water change and everything mentioned earlier.. I'll post and let you know how that goes. There was one other time he didnt eat for a couple days.. I readjusted the heater and he started back up eating fine. Ive tried that this time and no luck. He seems okay and he plays with me (chasing me when I am around his tank) as usual... I will get him some different types of pellets to try. Will he be okay with having not ate for a while?? I dont know how long fish can go without food and I dont want to lose him or harm him any while I try and figure out whats wrong.

 

[Bl80]

Try sinking his pellets in Some garlic juice...

 

[HB87]

How do I make that? Or is it buyable? I'll give it a try if I can get some..

 

[Bl80]

Get some fresh garlic cloves and press them ti get the juice out.... Soak your food in some before you feed it.

 

[HB87]

Okay thank you.. I'll give it a try.

 

[IvanMike]

As long as he was eating well before he'll be fine. I've left fish for a week without food on vacation, and it's not unusual for fish not to eat for a week or more when shipped (especially when collected in the wild). also remember that your fish has the good life - food gets dropped in front of him - fish in the wild eat a lot of low nutrition food just to get enough.