Correct steps in breeding Salvini's

[JoeZ]

I've noticed a definite difference in the behavior of these fish vs other cichlids. A week or so after spawning, the male literally beats the female to the point of death. Following the first spawn, I managed to save the female from the clutches of death by using a divider in the tank. The male was relentless. A month later, I removed the divider, and within a week or so, they began hanging around each other. A few weeks later, I had eggs again. Unfortunately this time, I did not follow the same regiment, and wound up with a dead female.

Is this normal? What should my timelines be for introducing, separating, re-introducing, etc?

 

[JoeZ]

One more question....which parent should be left alone with the fry? It seems both are great parents. Right now I have my widowed male with the fry and he will not leave their side.....mind you, in an aquarium with no other fish.

 

[Mouth-Brooder-Fanatic]

im surprised the male makes a good parent actually, but fair enough!
sad about the female
at least there are no others to eat the babies, thats one good thing
well.... i guess from now he should have another female, maybe two so he can pick his mate. but let the babies get a bit bigger! ha
i think you need to do as before... let them breed, put in a divider until she recovers, then reintroduce her. a good idea is dither fish - less attention is on her. maybe a couple of tankmates would help. either way good luck with the babies! pics?

 

[JoeZ]

My timing and staying on top of this was very poor. I have about 20 babies max at this point, and no additional tank set up. I am in the process of getting my 20 long set up as a grow out tank. I'll throw a sponge filter on it and be done with it. Hopefully I will do this in time to actually wind up with some babies.

But yes...amazingly enough, the male is guarding the babies quite well. I had this store that is able to get them order me 2. They will bring in a bunch, and I am able to sex them pretty easily....that won't be a problem. I would start off the female in the tank divided obviously, and then release her on a day that I can properly observe to make sure that she is safe. By that point, I will have a secondary tank set up should I succeed again at breeding.

As far as adding some tank mates....that is a no no. These are probably the nastiest fish I've seen in a while. In fact, I did exactly what you are saying.....I added a pair of pink convicts. Within 2 weeks, they killed off both. I was shocked. The male actually has real big (and sharp) teeth. Never seen a cichlid like it! I think this tank is best left with the male, and a mate that can be introduced and removed at will.

 

[Mouth-Brooder-Fanatic]

ok, i see your point! well, looks like you'll have to keep an eye on them, but sounds like a good plan

 

[Freakgecko91]

Message HUKIT, I know he has salvinis (can't remember if he breeds them or not) and has a female red festae that kills literally everything, including mates after spawning. He'll be your best bet

 

[JoeZ]

On that note, do you feel a 20 gallon long aquarium is suitable as a grow out tank for the fry? I had planned on going bigger, but I already have the tank...and it figured it was somewhat decent. Also, sponge filter good for this or should I grab myself an auxillary one for quick clean up's....like an AquaClear 50 or something. I can power it up once the fry are larger and shut it down when they are too small.

Thoughts?

 

[JoeZ]

 

[HUKIT]

Are you sure the female didn't kill the male? From that picture it looks the other way around. Females have both the black blotch on dorsal and the black spot on the operculum.

 

[JoeZ]

No. Lol !!! That was taken before he did her in. That was of the female and the fry. Sorry....probably should have mentioned that.

Nice catch though....

 

[HUKIT]

Welcome to the frustrating and rewarding world of central american cichlids, yes they can and will be nasty during and after breeding.

The best solution is to start with a large tank with plenty of individual territories, if this is not a option then a permanent tank divider with a opening small enough for her to pass but not large enough for him to to the same. Almost everyone of my fish room tanks use light crate dividers.

With regards to getting more females since they're so easily sexed I would purchase 3-4, it's not uncommon for breeding trios to develop. This way he can choose his mate which will potentially make the bond stronger.

What size tank is this?

 

[JoeZ]

I've seen what you are saying in some books I have. If he is 3" or so, what is the smallest female that you would recommend? What is the smallest size in which they can breed? Are these fish smart enough to swim through a hole just big enough for them? Obviously there has to be a significant difference in size between the male and female? The tank is a 20 high. Not sure how many tank mates we can have in there.

 

[HUKIT]

They will start breeding at 1.5-2in. And generally the male will be larger since the females growth slows when she starts developing eggs.

I'm afraid in a small tank like that she will get killed 9 times of 10, there simply is not enough space for her to get away. I suggest nothing smaller than a 4ft. tank for a pair without a divider, especially since they'll reach 8-9in.

I have two breeding pairs in a 72g with no issues, sure there is some chasing but I've got plenty of space and distractions such as a school of 17 buenes aires tetras to distract them.

Here is a couple in my fish room.

 

[Freakgecko91]

I can't get over how disgustingly clean those tanks are! We're not worthy!

 

[JoeZ]

Lol @ Freak! I have to agree...

So here's the question. Assuming that what I have is all I can have ....meaning no room....what do you suggest? I am in the process of setting up a 20 long and 29 gallon as grow out tanks. That's pretty much all I have room for until further notice. Thinking maybe to forget the Salvini's and do something boring like convicts? Lol !!!!

Still don't think it's possible in the 20?

PS took the last bunch of babies that were in there and siphoned them into a netted breeder holder. Half of them died a few hours later. I think they got caught up in the netting. Ugh!!!!!

 

[HUKIT]

For awhile you could get away with it with a divider but in those sized tanks between deteriorating water quality and aggression isues long term it simpy won't work.

There are loads of fish in the cryptoheros, nigrofasciatus, and amatitlania that would work well. Trust me there are far better options than convicts.

I only decorate the tanks in living spaces, tanks in my fish room are totally utilitarian and exist only to breed fish and support my crack like habit.

 

[JoeZ]

Strangely enough when I search those three fish, I get pictures of convicts. Any common names? And are these readily available?

 

[HUKIT]

Panamensis
Sajica
Nanoleteus
Honduran sp.
Cutteri
Siquia
Kanna
Multispinosa

Those three genus's I listed are some of my favorites, you get all the central american attitude and color without the tank busting size. I'm currently keeping the first six on that list, among another dozen of other species.

Sorry I don't normally use common names as this leads to confusion, but search any of those names and you'll get instant hits.

 

[Borderlesscott]

I can't get over how disgustingly clean those tanks are! We're not worthy!

Yep, just thinking the same! Had to look closer as I thought they had no water in them.

 

[JoeZ]

Last one (Multispinosa) is a Rainbow Cichlid, yes? Half of the others are coming up in searches, and definitely not available where I am. The others I have come up with nothing on.