Side rims or no rims?

[weekf]

I am buying a 6 foot x 1.5 f widex 2f high tank and have the option whether to have it rimless or with corner rims to add extra protection. I must admit it doesn't look nice with the rim but feel better that the corners are reinforced.

With this tank 2 foot high they are using 10mm glass is it ok or safe if I don't want the corner rims? Will a tank give way easily without the rims? Or just depend the type of silicone they use?

I need to make a decision today since they just starting building it up for me. Please help... Thanks in advance.

[Tex]

Well, as an engineer I'd go for the rims, especially on a tank that size. I could engage everybody in a discussion on force vectors and hydrostatic and hydrodynamic pressures but I'll spare you the pain.

[Tex]

On second thought, is the tank glass or acryllic?

[weekf]

It is a glass tank therefore I am a bit worry. The glass is 10mm think I am not worry about that just the corners I am worry it can't withstand the force of the water pressure. If there are rims there will be extra layer of silicone there to re-inforce it but it WILL NOT look nice.

[DeFeKt]

well, as an engineer as well, and knowing a few tank builders, If you mean the bits of angle on the corners don't bother..They are for cosmetic purposes only and offer absolutly no structural strength whatsoever.
If you mean the strapping around the top edges of the tank that the lids sit on, yes bother. it is essential as it IS a main part of the structural strength of the tank.

they are using 10mm glass is it ok or safe if I don't want the corner rims?

Yes it is safe. btw any tank above 20" high is required to have 10mm+ glass.
What I did was had the front glass panel glued on with black silicone..and if they are a good tank builder it will be trimmed in a nice neat line and look fantastic.

I could engage everybody in a discussion on force vectors and hydrostatic and hydrodynamic pressures but I'll spare you the pain.

Please do..I'm interested to see how you can justify that this tank needs the corner bracing..(If I understand correctly that is what this person is talking about)

weekf, where in australia are you? If west coast I may be able to suggest some great tank builders who will save you the cost of buying from a shop.. If East coast or thereabouts I can at least point you in the right direction if you are not aware of it already..

HTH

Matt.

[weekf]

Thanks for the info Matt!!! It does make sense come to think of it. The re-inforcement should be made on the top part. I did ask the tank builder if it is ok to have the top 2 strips of glass running from front to back to be removed he also said NO otherwise the tank will break because it simply will not hold. He also said I can choose not to have side rims as well.

I am from Perth, Australia where are you from Matt? From Australia too? Thanks for the advice I will get rid of the rims. They are currently in the process of building up this tank for me and I have a lots of other questions posted would you also help me to answer them as well? Thanks.

[DeFeKt]

sure thing mate,
I am in perth to, down in port kennedy..
What are you stocking with?
Are you aware of the perth cichlid society and Western Cichlids?

Out of interest who is building the tank? I know a few builders if you haven't spoken to them also.. shoot me a pm if you don't want to discuss it here

Matty

[DeFeKt]

haha nevermind, I just realised you are going with saltwater :P

btw this is not essential with 10mm glass but I would also opt to have strapping put across the top of the sides as well..Again it's not vital but it helps if something happens with the lids, ie something resting on them etc etc..

[weekf]

I am in Langford. I will be stocking it with a few tangs and for the time being will only be a FOWLR tank as tangs might not do well and need medications. I have got another 75 litres nano with a clown fish, some corals and a cleaner shrimp just the shrimp alone cost me A$140.00 This small 75litre high sea horse tank has been running for 8 months with no problem but too small for tangs therefore I am building this big one now JUST for the tangs may be other fishes as well.

I don't think I can opt the 2 glass straps in the middle to put them on the sides because this is a 6 foot tank. I think it needs something to support the middle part of the tank I am not sure if I am right.

[DeFeKt]

I think it needs something to support the middle part of the tank I am not sure if I am right.

It sure does, most 6footers will have two centre braces as you said..
What I mean is having the 1" strapping around the top of the tank running all the way around instead of just on the front and back.

Can I ask who is building it? Reason I ask is because my "builder" is in Lynwood.

[weekf]

Lynwood is just across the road to Langford. I am not sure who is building it but I ordered the tank from Aquarium City in Bayswater. 6ft x 18in x 24in tank for $379.

I see I see. My tank will only have a 1 inch strap on the side on front and back because I need the side for the hang on back type skimmer or other hang on gears in future. I am not going to have a sump or refugium or anything like that.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by DeFeKt

well, as an engineer as well, and knowing a few tank builders, If you mean the bits of angle on the corners don't bother..They are for cosmetic purposes only and offer absolutly no structural strength whatsoever.
If you mean the strapping around the top edges of the tank that the lids sit on, yes bother. it is essential as it IS a main part of the structural strength of the tank.........................

Hi Matt, I assumed he was referring to a continuous rim around the entire perimeter of the tank. Even a low tensile strength plastic rim, when silicon glued to the tank will offer a tremendous mechanical advantage against seperation in the corners. In a small tank I think you'd be okay without a rim. Silicon merely sticks to the glass (and quite well) but it doesn't prevent the glass panes from pushing away from each other if enough force is applied. The strength of the joint is limited to the shear strength of the cured silicon. I agree that decorative corner tabs offer no structural advantage. In one of my calculus classes, of all things, we studied this very subject.

I'm a mechanical/manufacturing with heavy doses of electrical and a minor in math/statistics. How about you? How are the engineering schools down under. I don't know much about them.

[DeFeKt]

aahh I suspected that was what you meant, I wasn't sure either so I covered both options :P

I'm more a "hands on" experienced engineer, Metals Engineer in the fabrication stream. (Cert 3) Mainly in structural discipline and in aluminium boats (100metres +). Not sure if that means much to you but I did an apprenticeship on the tools with studies 1 day a week for four years. The studies basically steer towards things like the design of, the displacement and inturn the prismatic of co-efficient of large vessels in marine environments. (Crikey don't ask me to work it out now though, might need a refresher)

I would have thought previously that plastic or perspex would have been to flexible at the width of only 1 - 1.5"max but with the tension being on the silicone along the entire edge and the key word "low tensile" It's rather logically now that I think about it..

How are the engineering schools down under. I don't know much about them.

I Wouldn't know either sorry.... My key studies were based on Maritime applications so it's a bit different to standard "Engineering"
However in my short period of experience it has lead me to now being a Grade 1 Designer for one of/if not the largest engineering firm in the world.

Currently I'm utilising my experience by helping setup and administrate a supposed "Be all and end all" program that will perfect mining site design all the way from client initial contact and needs, to automated drawing construction and annotation, down to pushing the finished product out the door and onto the field.

for weekf, I know!! Friends of mine (Aquatastic) are based just off nicholson road!! They supply Aquotix and generally anyone who wants a tank..
Hey thats a good price your paying, is that including a stand?
I had a 6x18x18 custom built with black trim(FWIW the neatest I have ever seen) a 10mm base, and a twin port side drop filter built into each back corner of the tank for $300. Very VERY high quality tanks...
Have you considered air driven side drop filtration before? I'm pretty sure vebas is using them in a marine application, i could be wrong though i'd have to check it out...they are the most effective, basic and yet intelligent design I have ever seen and used!!

Vebas are great for Marine tanks, fish and equipment if you get a chance to check it out..
Pacco down there is always a wealth of information and is always happy to help out!!
Pretty sure I even saw a blue ring octopus down there at one stage, but i'll be buggered if I would keep one of them!!

[weekf]

I think fluo won't give much ripple effect strip light that is. For max ripple effect I will say a few single bulb light, not necessary a metal halide but something like a single bulb in nature spread them out and you still get ripple effect but metal halide just show them up more obviously because it is brighter I think.

[Tex]

Hi again Matt. Sorry to hijack the thread but I can't help it. I too work in the heavy industry segment. I design and sell material handling machines including some mine duty equipment for gold mines and coal mines in North America. We build extensively with various grades of stainless steel and exotic alloys. Although I have a classical engineering education I have been humbled many times by the salty "hands on" guys with decades of experience. My hat is off to you.

In my dream life I would have been a naval architect. Love the water, love boats, love to work on them. As a matter of fact I have a small pleasure boat that both me and the family love. Everytime I take it out I think about how I could have designed it better. I can't help it. I walk through a big building and I start thinking about the beams and the load factors and how the foundation was designed and the air conditioning and the plumbing. Sometimes my wife thinks I'm strange.

I'd be interested to hear about the automated drawing construction and annotation system. I have vast experience in computer aided drafting and computer aided engineering including Dassault Sytems Catia software, one of the premeire ship bulding packages in the world.

Okay, weekf, get the rims!

[weekf]

Nah not getting the rims...

[Tex]

Originally Posted by weekf

Nah not getting the rims...

You're killing me man!

[weekf]

As long as I am not killing my tank lol

I seriously doubt that it would help at all. I think the most important are with the reinforcement around the top of the tank with 2 glass bracings from front to back and the side should have no problem. Thanks for you help and input anyway.