55g need help... GOLDFISH

[rreekers]

I have been called upon to help my sister save her goldfish. She has 4 goldfish (5-7in long est. havent seen them in a while) ... 1 one of them NEVER leave the bottom corner, 2 others always sit at the bottom, and only 1 on them ventures through the whole tank. The tank is about 3 months old, was never officially cycled. she has been having ammonia and nitrAte levels. i will have more information on exact levels when i go there tomorrow with my liquid test kit (API) she added 3 live plants yesterday... HELP... What should i do and what would explain the fish behavior??

there is about 100-120g of filtration on the tank (hang over the side filters)

--- she never did a water change or cleaning untill about 2 weeks ago.. but the tank had MASSIVE Nitrite issues about 1.5 months ago and the LPS just gave them a $33 bottle of chemicals to dump into it over a week.. they didnt even ask about cycling or ANYTHING ... got to love the LPS NOT

 

[jlk]

Do you know if they comets/common goldfish or fancies? If they are comets/commons & 5-7inches long, your sister is fighting a losing battle with ammonia/nitrites/nitrates! Realistically, she could only keep a single comet/common in a 55gal and that would only be short term. They realistically belong in a pond environment because they grow to be 12-18inches in length. She should REALLY consider rehoming them if they are comets/commons! 4 fancies in a 55 gal would be ok as long as she is keeping up with regular water changes & vaccumming (atleast once a wk) and watching her water parameters. I imagine the numbers you will see when you test will be pretty horrific....the only solution is LOTS & LOTS of big pwcs with a good water conditioner (prime or amquel plus) to get the ammonia & nitrite down to zero & the nitrate below 20. There definitely needs to be more filtration as well (atleast a 400gph filter) and some additional aeration beyond the filter. It sounds like these poor fish are suffering

 

[Fishguy2727]

It sounds like the water changes have probably been nonexistent. If she starts them up immediately she can salvage the tank and keep it going. This is assuming these are round-bodied/fancy goldfish. As stated long-boded pond type goldfish a need a massive tank or pond.

Test the tap water too. I have seen cases where people can't get rid of ammonia no matter how many water changes they do only to find out it is because their tap is 2-4ppm.

Food is another issues that is overlooked. Cheap fish tend to be fed cheap food. Unfortunately this usually means Wal-Mart flakes. A high quality pellet is ideal because it is cleaner. I have had many people comment on how much cleaner their tank runs just because of a change of food.

 

[rreekers]

She did a water change a week ago..I did a 35% water change ... I went up there last night and the ammunition was between .25-.50 nitrites 0... nitrates ~30. Ph 7.6-7.8.... installed some plants, removed all statutes to maximize swimming room...
To my surprise there was a pleco in the tank 6-8 inches long... what is your opinion of common pleco living with common goldfish? IMO, not a good situation ... can he be fine.
Question how is that tank functioning well with only well water added, they don't treat the water at all.. are goldfish really that Hardy?

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Gold fish are very hardy unfortunately. My dad kept 20 commons in a pond water feature (about 100g from memory) for years, no filter and only top offs with the rain and hose. No water conditioner, no PWC at all.

 

[rreekers]

And they lived fine? These ones are a few years old, have live in tanks ranging from, 5g, 10g, 29g, now 55g

 

[jlk]

Ammonia levels between .25 & .50 are not healthy for your sisters fish. More pwcs are in order here to get those numbers down. My suggestion is that your sister really has to consider rehoming them in an appropriate environment (pond) because its cruel to keep them in such cramped living conditions and look into something more suitable for a 55gal.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

And they lived fine? These ones are a few years old, have live in tanks ranging from, 5g, 10g, 29g, now 55g

Well, they lived, don't know how well. I was only a kid but I don't remember any of them getting any bigger. Poor things got stunted I'm guessing. Then one day he left the mesh off the top and the kookaburras got them all.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

And I though I'd should add that just because they can live in these conditions doesn't mean we should subject them to them.

 

[jsoong]

To my surprise there was a pleco in the tank 6-8 inches long... what is your opinion of common pleco living with common goldfish? IMO, not a good situation ... can he be fine.
Question how is that tank functioning well with only well water added, they don't treat the water at all.. are goldfish really that Hardy?

1. Well water don't have chlorine or chloramines added, so you don't need conditioner. You do wnat to make sure the water is temp matched, and pH stable. <Some well water will off gas & need to sit out 24 hrs for pH to stabilize.>

2. Common pleco don't belong with fancy goldfish ... since the pleco will get big & will eat the slime coat off the slower moving fancies. Common pleco & commons can be kept in big ponds .... but not a good idea in a 55.

With a good size common in a small tank, you are going to be constantly fighting an uphill battle. For now, big daily pwc's is the bandaid solution. But it will be much better to rehome the commons & pleco & stick with fancy goldfish.

 

[rreekers]

I know this is not the best situation for these fish, but it is hard to convince a 14 year old girl to get rid of her pets, i talked to my mom and said that i know a great (non commercial) local pet store, that will take the fish and the pleco (will give store credit) they are the only pet store i have been to that can support larger fish, the have multiple pond setups in store.

to help the situation the best i can, i will be visiting that tank another visit in a few days to to teach my mother and sister how to use a liquid API master test kit, and i will help them establish a PWC schedule and introduce them to Ammonia detoxifier.

any other suggestions regarding how i can help make the best out of the current situation? (besides getting rid of the fish, because that is not an option right now)


***If anyone on here live in MN or will be visiting the twin cities area...A World of Fish in Minneapolis (richfield) is a MUST visit *****

 

[jlk]

Well, your are doing your best for the situation that you can! Teaching your mom & sis about water testing & pwcs is a good start! The best i can suggest is to keep suggesting the rehoming option (especially when they tire of doing constant water changes & the expense of buying bottle after bottle of water conditioners). Hopefully, they will consider changing their minds in the near future & give these guys the best home they can have. The other option is a couple more BIG tanks...

 

[rreekers]

My mother was thinking about getting a bigger tank,, but is only thinking about a 75g and i told her that, that is still not big enough.. i tried to compromise with her and told her to rehome 2 of the 4 gold fish and rehome the pleco and the other 2 goldfish should be fine for a while in the 55g. I currently and housing a black moor goldfish for my sister at my house and my next tactic is to tell them that they can get some moors or telescopics, how many of those could be housed in a 55g comfortably???if she got rid of all the commons and the pleco?

 

[jsoong]

4 moors would be doable in a 55. You will still be looking at weekly water changes, but won't be the insane amounts needed to keep the commons alive.

One thought about the re-homing. Is there a friend you know that has a pond? Your sis can then visit her pets & she might not feel as bad compared to just giving the fish away ....

 

[jlk]

4 moors or telescopes is about the limit for a 55gal. It will appear a bit empty at first, but they do grow to be 6-8inches (ive seen pics of larger ones though!) so they will be fine. I have a 50gal & only have 3 mediumsized ones & the mess is still unreal! They are suited to aquarium life though unlike the commons who grow to be 12-18inches & need to be able to swim freely. Your sis can still have fish, just ones that are better suited to the confines of an aquarium! The moors are funny, comical fish & are quite enjoyable! But she has to understand the water & testing & pwcs-moors are very sensitive to their conditions so she really needs to learn how to properly care for them! Good luck!!!