Help me clean my tank!

[mugenakuma]

Recently I did a test of the water in my two tanks. I used those little strips that measure nitrate, nitrite, ph, etc.

Anyway my numbers were awful, for both tanks. The nitrates were completely off the chart! Over 200!
Everything else was just o.k. The water looked a bit soft, and was too acidic.

Now according to my friend, a new member of this forum, I should follow the following plan to help my tank:

I will start changing a 1/3 of the water every day along with a good gravel cleaning. I am only going to clean one section of the gravel and tank each day. I will then test my water ever 2 days. This water changing and gravel cleaning will then continue till my nitrate levels go to a normal/safe level. I am using Stress coat conditioner and Amquel + to remove chlorine and treat the water.

Now what does everyone think of this plan?

So far it has been two days since I have started this cleaning regimet. Today I tested the tank and it's nitrates were still way too high.

I love my fish very much and would greatly appreciate any suggestions people can provide.

thanks,

Glenn

 

[QTOFFER]

First, how big are the tanks and how many fish? Is your tank cycled? How are the ammonia and nitrate levels? At this point, don't worry about pH and hardness unless you're raising sensitive fish like discus or African cichlids.

Second, bring a water sample to your lfs and have your tests confirmed. Strip tests are notoriously inaccurate and I can't believe that your water is really 200 ppm nitrates! While you're there, check out the liquid tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate - they're so much more accurate. Also have a sample of your tap water tested - some municipal water supplies have elevated nitrates due to fertilizer runoff.

Third, changing 1/3 every day may be stressful on your fish. There is too high a chance of causing a big swing in pH or temperature which would be worse than high, but stable nitrates. 20% every other day is the most aggressive I would get with water changes.

Finally, how do your fish look - any gasping at the surface, lethargy?

 

[mugenakuma]

I have two tanks. My first tank is a tall hexagonal shaped Sea Clear bland plexi 15 gallon. This tank has two very small Kooli loaches, a good sized African Cichlid (blue and black stripes) and a HUGE 8 1/2" to 9+" silver tipped shark.

My second tank is a wide glass 15 gallon tank with a blue lobster, medium sized bosemani rainbow, medium tire track eel, and medium blood cichlid parrot fish.

I have the liquid test kits for mid and high range ph. Those test came out just o.k. I didn't really trip out till I tried my friends test strips which showed crazy high nitrate levels.

Now I must say that I definitely don't clean my tank like I should. Over the past 6+ years I have always been good about changing the filters and water, but I have never cleaned the gravel especially well. That's why I somewhat could believe the high nitrate levels.

So now I have changed my tanks water for the past two days. Should I worry? When should I change the water next?

To be honest my fish look great and very healthy. They never look like they are gasping, have great appetites and are very active. In fact my Parrot fish has just laid a bunch of eggs all over my tank rock, and that's for the second time in the past 4 months. You would never know anything was wrong with the tanks unless you looked at those test strips.

I do have one fish, my striped blue/black African Cichlid that has a really weird blotchy multicolored rash. I have tried this Rid ich+ Amquel brand stuff but it didnt seem to do anything.

Anyway thanks QTOFFER for the help! I would really appreciate any more input you can provide.

 

[QTOFFER]

You do have an extremely high bioload in both tanks, so the nitrate readings may not be too far off. The reason the fish look healthy is because the nitrates built up over time and the fish adapted. You have to realize, tho, that you have a biological timebomb building and at some point, things are going to go to crap pretty suddenly. In fact, it may already be manifesting itself in your blue cichlid's rash.

The silver tipped, or bala shark is way too big for a 15gal. It may look healthy for now, but it can't possibly be very happy by itself in that little tank. Balas like others of their own kind, but they get to be 14 inches long. It's a shame, because balas are dramatic-looking fish that are very peaceful despite their size - I almost got one. However, unless you have a 240 gal tank, it's not going to work in the long term. I'd suggest trying to trade the bala to your lfs. Same goes for the tire track eel. They get to be 30 inches long and need at least a 90 gal. They are supposed to be pretty laid back as eels go, but someday, you might notice one or two fewer rainbows in that tank!

As far as gravel vacuuming is concerned, I would do it every other day - maybe remove 10 - 15% of the water until the levels go down. But your long term solution to the elevated nitrates is to reduce the bioload in your two grossly overcrowded tanks.

The blue cichlid may have velvet - a disease caused by another protozooan. Does it look like it's been dusted with fine gold talcum powder? - that's velvet. There are meds for velvet, but some of them may harm the scaleless loaches - maybe you could pick up a cheap 10 gal hospital tank.

 

[mugenakuma]

I can't really tell about the blue cichlid's rash. It looks almost the color of flake food. I don't see any portrusions or fuzz on the rash. It's basically smooth patches of discoloration.

I guess I could get rid of the eel but I couldn't imagine getting rid of the shark. I have had him for over 6 years and have grown very attached. So you are saying I would need at least a 240 gallon tank to house him in! I always thought a fish wouldn't grow too large for the tank they are housed in? How could my silver tipped shark have gotten so big?

I just uploaded some pics of my fish. They are under my gallery. Check em out and let me know if you come up with any more tips.

 

[QTOFFER]

So is the rash reddish? That could be bacterial. Grey patches are also bacterial. Would explain why rid ich had no effect. Something like Maracyn might help. The pics aren't up yet, but I will check tomorrow.

The idea that fish stop growing in a small tank is really a myth. I grew up believing that goldfish only got as big as the tank - want a small goldfish, get a small tank - totatally untrue! An animal's growth rate is dictated by its genes and its nutrition - not by the size of its enclosure. It's like saying that you can prevent babies from growing by dressing them in tight clothing. Sometimes a fish can get stunted by living in a small polluted environment, but that is a cruel and extremely unhealthy situation for the animal.

The reason your shark got so big is because you have been feeding it very well and keeping up with the water changes all these years. With luck, it should live another six years and put on an additional five inches. It's not going to stop growing until it either reaches 14 inches or it gets so big that it produces too much waste for even massive water changes to remove from the 15 gal tank. At that point, it will get sick and it may start dying.

Also, it will become neurotic from being confined in such a small space. A 15 gal is about 24 x 12 inches - an 8 inch long fish barely has two body-lengths of swimming space and just enough room to turn. A 14 inch fish can't swim or turn at all! That's not a pleasant way to live at all.

It's so common to see posts here from people who just have a question and wind up being told that their fish is too big, too aggressive, incompatible, etc. I know I wouldn't be happy at all to hear that kind of advice. But it really is truthful and I hope you don't take it the wrong way. Do consider giving away the bala since it really is not going to be able to live in your 15 gal for very much longer.

Here is a compromise that may or may not work. Let's see what everyone else has to say about it.
The 240 gal requirement is based on keeping a trio of balas (they are schooling fish). Your bala has been solitary all its life, so maybe this is not a critical factor.
If you were somehow able to set up a 75 or 90 gal, you may be able to keep the bala with a small group of community fish. The bala is very peaceful despite its size - aggression should not be a problem. It would suck to part with a pet you've had for six years and I'm throwing out this idea to the community - would it work?

 

[mortiss]

I had 3 baby balas in my 55 gallon before I found out that it just wouldn't work. I found them a home before I got way too attached, they are such great fish and I think the pet stores and Wal Mart do them a terrible disservice by selling them. Since the majority of fish owners can't provide adequate space for balas and pacus and many more types, it's irresponsible of the "big box" pet industry. Having said that, since your bala has been on his own relativlely happily for 6 years and you really can't part with him. I think if you were to get a MUCH larger tank as QTOFFER said that would be the single best thing you could do for him other than finding him another home or giving him to your lfs. I agree also that his quality of life will start to diminish as he grows and you may lose him too early.

 

[Pufferpunk]

A silver tipped shark may not be a bala shark. I believe she's talking of a Columbian shark, which is a BW fish that grows to 18" & prefers SW as an adult.

Is this your fish: http://www.aquariacentral.com/fishinfo/brackish/bfshark.htm

 

[JamesShall]

This is his shark

I have seen it in person and it is very active in it's tank. In the pic it's just taking a rest which isn't very common from the times I've seen it. the tank is about 4 times as tall as what little bit is shown in the pic. The shark has room to swim circles, but it tends to swim in helixes from to bottom in the tank.

His tanks are scarey dirty. Those test strips he's talking about may not be SUPER accurate, but I used them to set up and cycle my tank and they did the job well. My tank reads about 40ppm and his tank read SUPER high. The strip reads up to 200ppm by a color gradient that tops out at a nice pink color. His water shot it WAY over that color into a dark red hue!

Anyway, his fish do look healthy, but there is a serious algae issue going on that you can see in the background of the pics in his gallery. This one is a fine example

You can see... well, you CAN'T see - the background is supposed to be glass, but it's taken over by algae. The rocks and big rocks... I wouldn't want to touch them! Nothing is floating in the water, but I can only figure that the algae and nitrate levels are making a great breeding ground for disease.

My suggestion of the frequent water changes do seem a bit aggessive after reading some of the responses. I do agree that a more gradual approach would be a good idea, BUT - the tanks (IMO) have a large bioload already. Maybe daily changes would be better if done every other day, but personally I think daily would still work since there is enough work in there to last a good 4 weeks.

I "repaired" his HOB filters about a month ago. They are still severly dirty, but atleast the biowheel is turning a bit now. In my opinion they need a super thorough cleaning as their flow has been greatly deminished. The biowheel spends more time stopped than it does rotating even after it has been semi-cleaned out and bearings junk removed. The wheel was NOT turning at all and the impellers in both HOB's were both making a lot of noise before I operated on them.

Oh - there is also a UG filter on both tanks, but I am not sure if he's running the UG plates under the rocks. I think he told me once that he just has the tubes pushed into the rocks somehow... probably with a small fitting on the end to prevent rocks from getting sucked up. From everything I have read UG filters are not the way to go since they suck waste and stuff deep into the rocks. Yeah, that's great for bacterial growth and all, but it provides a breeding ground for other stuff too if you don't do frequent rock cleaning. Suggestions I have read are to run the UG's in reverse so that the bacteria growth occurs under the rocks and waste is not pulled down into the rocks. Apperantly people have had great sucess with this reverse method and don't have to clean as frequently.

 

[mugenakuma]

Yea pufferpunk that is my fish! I remember hearing a long time ago about how they do like saltwater, at least when they get much older.

QTFFER the rash is red and grey so I think you are right it's bacterial.
I guess I should try this Maracyn. Would this harm my scaleless loaches and/or shark?

O.k so I guess I should start changing the water, maybe 1/4 every other day or so? How's that sound.


I guess I should also get a new larger tank for my shark. So what does everyone think size I should go with? What about places to buy the tank? Also filter suggestions for the tank would be great too.

Oh and thanks for all the tips jamesShall, mr. lobster killa!

 

[QTOFFER]

Get AT LEAST a 75 gal. In fact, get the biggest tank you can barely afford! If I had it to do over again, I would have somehow found the extra $100 and gotten a 75 gal instead of a 55.

Maybe some of our resident Los Angelinos can recommend a good place to buy a tank.

As for filtration, go with a cannister type - they're more efficient (ie cheaper to run) and you need only clean them every couple of months. And get it over the internet (BiG Als or Drs Foster Smith) - the lfs will ream you good and hard over the price. Same with the heater.