Aremihc
Aquarium Advice Regular
How many mixed ghost, japonica, bee, cobalt, etc... shrimp can I have in a 55gal tropical community? Rough estimate is what I'm looking for, or a guide line. 10 too many? 1 per gallon? No less than 15? Thanks...
How many small (less than 1.5") shrimp in a 55gal?
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SpeedEuphoria
Aquarium Advice Addict
Is it a shrimp only tank?
I know people who breed RCS(cherry shrimp) have ~150 in a 10gallon tank. Also people have ~250 in a 20G shrimp only.
In a 55G community tank thats not overstocked I think 200 would be OK
I know people who breed RCS(cherry shrimp) have ~150 in a 10gallon tank. Also people have ~250 in a 20G shrimp only.
In a 55G community tank thats not overstocked I think 200 would be OK
Aremihc
Aquarium Advice Regular
No, Community Tropical, about 30 Danio size fish, maybe less, maybe more.
neilanh
Sliced Bread
You can have tons of them in a 55 if you wanted it. Thousands easily. Like SE said, I've got hundreds in my 20g.
As others have noted you can pretty much have as many as you want. The one thing to be careful of, is not to add two varieties that will interbreed. The result is most often a very ugly brown shrimp. ie you can place Tigers and Cherry Red Shrimp together, but don't put Snowballs with Cherry Red Shrimp.
Stephen
Aquarium Advice Activist
Seriously, that's going to be enough shrimp for a buffet.
What are the "danio-sized fish" you're referring to here? That would probably partially determine how much shrimp you can stock in your tank.
What are the "danio-sized fish" you're referring to here? That would probably partially determine how much shrimp you can stock in your tank.
Well there are some issues you need to consider here, perhaps you have already thought about all of these things but perhaps not...
1. Shrimp add very little to the bioload; if it was a shrimp only tank that size you could easily have 500+ shrimp in there. Given you have fish in the tank, how many shrimp you can have is going to be determined by how many fish you already have. If you are already at the point of the tank being "maxed" in terms of fish, then I would suggest not more than 50-100 shrimp. If the tank is understocked with fish, then several hundred shrimp would be fine.
2. Partially related to point #1 above, dwarf shrimp tend to be much more sensitive to water paramenters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) than even "sensitive" aquarium fish. *Any* ammonia or nitrite, no matter how little, will likely wipe out your shrimp in short order, and even nitrate levels that would be perfectly fine for a fish tank can kill off shrimp. If you are serious about keeping shrimp in this tank, aim to keep nitrate levels at 5 ppm or less.
3. If the fish are no larger than zebra danios, then (assuming they are peaceful fish), adult shrimp will be fine. But don't expect any babies to survive unless you are very thickly planted with large quantities of java moss or similar types of moss for the babies to hide in and feed without becoming food for the fish.
4. That being said, even adult shrimp will usually not exhibit their full range of behaviors (including most of their playful antics) if there are any fish in the tank. In combo fish/shrimp tanks, my experience is the shrimp spend nearly all of their time hiding, or foraging only in the most heavily sheltered parts of the tank. Whereas in a shrimp-only tank, they are far more playful, more open, and will spend time throughout the whole tank, the entire bottom, sides of the glass, crawling all over plants & driftwood, even swimming to the surface and "hanging" upside down to grab flake food off the surface of the water, etc. Basically, a lot of the behaviors that make dwarf shrimp so much fun to keep you will either not see at all, or else see very little of, if they are in a tank with fish.
5. Not all dwarf shrimp prefer the same conditions. Some need hard, slightly alkaline water (e.g. most of the Neocaridina such as Red Cherry, Yellow, and Snowball), some need very hard, highly alkaline water (e.g. the new Sulawesi shrimp), while others need soft, acidic water (e.g. Crystal Red, Tiger, and related shrimp). Dwarf shrimp are quite capable of adapting to large extremes when it comes to temperature, but pH and hardness are quite important if you want healthy, thriving shrimp--and even MORE important if you want your shrimp to breed. So before you go buying any shrimp, make sure you know what pH and hardness your tank is at and buy shrimp appropriate for those water conditions. And when it comes to what conditions what shrimp need, go to a trusted hobby site (something like Petshrimp.com -- Freshwater Shrimp Hub of the world) rather than the website of the place selling you the shrimp, as many of them (to be blunt) will lie and tell you "this species will do great in all water conditions, whether acidic or alkaline, hard or soft" etc. Don't believe it! *Almost* all dwarf shrimp have a preference one way or the other (hard alkaline or soft acidic), and while you might get them to *live* in non-ideal conditions, they will have shortened lifespans, be less energetic, and breed very little (if at all) if conditions are not to their liking. Yes, there are a few exceptions (the Amano shrimp seems to be one of them), but the exceptions are rather rare. Also note that some need brackish water (e.g. the Hawaiin Red), and others while living in freshwater require brackish water to breed; or more correctly, newborn larvae/shrimplets will die unless they are in brackish water (the Amano is an example of this).
6. Many dwarf shrimp species are known to be able to interbreed; others are suspected to (but have not had rigorous testing done). Interbreeding will result in hybrids that are almost certain to be naturally colored (drab brown usually) which are both ugly and of no use to the hobby in terms of continuing carefully bred & selected strains. In order to avoid that, I would suggest you pick only one (or at most two) species of shrimp and stick with those. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to accomplish both #6 and #5, since (in general) the types of shrimp that prefer the same water conditions are also the types of shrimp most likely to interbreed.
Dwarf shrimp are amazing little things. But as someone who has kept them in community tanks as well as in shrimp-only tanks, I can only say that it wasn't until I did the latter that I truly fell in love with them. It makes ALL the difference in the world to have them in a tank of their own. So if you are serious about keeping these guys and you have the room for it, I'd suggest another tank.
1. Shrimp add very little to the bioload; if it was a shrimp only tank that size you could easily have 500+ shrimp in there. Given you have fish in the tank, how many shrimp you can have is going to be determined by how many fish you already have. If you are already at the point of the tank being "maxed" in terms of fish, then I would suggest not more than 50-100 shrimp. If the tank is understocked with fish, then several hundred shrimp would be fine.
2. Partially related to point #1 above, dwarf shrimp tend to be much more sensitive to water paramenters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) than even "sensitive" aquarium fish. *Any* ammonia or nitrite, no matter how little, will likely wipe out your shrimp in short order, and even nitrate levels that would be perfectly fine for a fish tank can kill off shrimp. If you are serious about keeping shrimp in this tank, aim to keep nitrate levels at 5 ppm or less.
3. If the fish are no larger than zebra danios, then (assuming they are peaceful fish), adult shrimp will be fine. But don't expect any babies to survive unless you are very thickly planted with large quantities of java moss or similar types of moss for the babies to hide in and feed without becoming food for the fish.
4. That being said, even adult shrimp will usually not exhibit their full range of behaviors (including most of their playful antics) if there are any fish in the tank. In combo fish/shrimp tanks, my experience is the shrimp spend nearly all of their time hiding, or foraging only in the most heavily sheltered parts of the tank. Whereas in a shrimp-only tank, they are far more playful, more open, and will spend time throughout the whole tank, the entire bottom, sides of the glass, crawling all over plants & driftwood, even swimming to the surface and "hanging" upside down to grab flake food off the surface of the water, etc. Basically, a lot of the behaviors that make dwarf shrimp so much fun to keep you will either not see at all, or else see very little of, if they are in a tank with fish.
5. Not all dwarf shrimp prefer the same conditions. Some need hard, slightly alkaline water (e.g. most of the Neocaridina such as Red Cherry, Yellow, and Snowball), some need very hard, highly alkaline water (e.g. the new Sulawesi shrimp), while others need soft, acidic water (e.g. Crystal Red, Tiger, and related shrimp). Dwarf shrimp are quite capable of adapting to large extremes when it comes to temperature, but pH and hardness are quite important if you want healthy, thriving shrimp--and even MORE important if you want your shrimp to breed. So before you go buying any shrimp, make sure you know what pH and hardness your tank is at and buy shrimp appropriate for those water conditions. And when it comes to what conditions what shrimp need, go to a trusted hobby site (something like Petshrimp.com -- Freshwater Shrimp Hub of the world) rather than the website of the place selling you the shrimp, as many of them (to be blunt) will lie and tell you "this species will do great in all water conditions, whether acidic or alkaline, hard or soft" etc. Don't believe it! *Almost* all dwarf shrimp have a preference one way or the other (hard alkaline or soft acidic), and while you might get them to *live* in non-ideal conditions, they will have shortened lifespans, be less energetic, and breed very little (if at all) if conditions are not to their liking. Yes, there are a few exceptions (the Amano shrimp seems to be one of them), but the exceptions are rather rare. Also note that some need brackish water (e.g. the Hawaiin Red), and others while living in freshwater require brackish water to breed; or more correctly, newborn larvae/shrimplets will die unless they are in brackish water (the Amano is an example of this).
6. Many dwarf shrimp species are known to be able to interbreed; others are suspected to (but have not had rigorous testing done). Interbreeding will result in hybrids that are almost certain to be naturally colored (drab brown usually) which are both ugly and of no use to the hobby in terms of continuing carefully bred & selected strains. In order to avoid that, I would suggest you pick only one (or at most two) species of shrimp and stick with those. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to accomplish both #6 and #5, since (in general) the types of shrimp that prefer the same water conditions are also the types of shrimp most likely to interbreed.
Dwarf shrimp are amazing little things. But as someone who has kept them in community tanks as well as in shrimp-only tanks, I can only say that it wasn't until I did the latter that I truly fell in love with them. It makes ALL the difference in the world to have them in a tank of their own. So if you are serious about keeping these guys and you have the room for it, I'd suggest another tank.
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Aremihc
Aquarium Advice Regular
Johnpaul, my friend, that was a VERY helpful post. As to quantities, nice to know that they are almost 0 as far as bioload, my tank will "full" will probably only be at 60-70% capacity, and that's MONTHS away as is. I want room in this tank so that as I get more experience/confidence I can add fish that I find that are a little more difficult to keep than my initial plan. I've chosen idiot-proof fish for now (Zebras, Otos, Cherry Barbs, and Neon Rainbows) so that I don't F up completely.
As to breeding, would be a nice side-effect someday, and perhaps eventually a goal, but for now I just want to add interest to my tank, specifically my gf LOVES the little ghost shrimp we have in our small tank, so adding shrimp to the 55gal is for her more than anything. I was concerned about only being able to have like 5-10 in there, and in a planted 55 I figured that would be a waste of $ since I'd never see them. More is great.
As to species, nice to know about inter-breeding, something I'll watch out for since I respect the effort it takes to breed traits into a species. And was already planning on matching the shrimp to my water conditions.
Thanks a lot!
As to breeding, would be a nice side-effect someday, and perhaps eventually a goal, but for now I just want to add interest to my tank, specifically my gf LOVES the little ghost shrimp we have in our small tank, so adding shrimp to the 55gal is for her more than anything. I was concerned about only being able to have like 5-10 in there, and in a planted 55 I figured that would be a waste of $ since I'd never see them. More is great.
As to species, nice to know about inter-breeding, something I'll watch out for since I respect the effort it takes to breed traits into a species. And was already planning on matching the shrimp to my water conditions.
Thanks a lot!
Aremihc
Aquarium Advice Regular
Purrbox, Cherry Red shrimp [NEOCARIDINA DENTICULATA SINENSIS] and (if I can find them) Dwarf Green shrimp [CARIDINA CF. BABAULTI "GREEN"]should be incompatible if I'm reading right, yes?
As a general rule Neocaridina sp. and Caridina sp. can't interbreed, so yes they should be safe to keep together as far as breeding goes. I'm not familiar enough with the Dwarf Green Shrimp to know whether or not they would prefer the same water conditions as the RCS.
Aremihc
Aquarium Advice Regular
Both seem to be listed everywhere as standard pH and High 70's Temp.
Those two sound like good options, the only thing to watch out for is there are currently 2 if not 3 different green shrimp currently in the hobby. There is the "Green Shrimp," the "Dark Green Shrimp," there is C. babaulti (which is definitely not the same as "Green," and it's unclear if it is the same as "Dark Green"), and then there are shrimp that are mostly if not entirely green yet don't have the word "green" in their name, such as the Malaya Shrimp.
Things are never quite as simple as they seem!
As for trying to find C. babaulti cf. green, here is something I snipped from one of the most experienced dwarf shrimp breeders in the entire country:
As far as I know, there is no picture of the "real" C. babaulti in existence (at least not publicly). When I say "real" C. babaulti I am talking about the shrimp that was described about maybe 100 years ago. The truth of the matter is that there might not be a "real C. babaulti" as this species has a very wide range and seems to include populations/subspecies that not only differ in outward appearance but also in number of larval stages, i.e. life cycle. Hopefully someone will get around to revising the whole shrimp-scientific-name mess that has been sitting unrevised since the beginning of time. Then, you might or might not end up with a species that is called C. babaulti.
For our purposes, anything you see described as "Caridina babaulti" on the internet (and people conveniently leave out the "cf." part) is NOT C. babaulti. or most likely not C. babaulti (if the animal in the picture has not been identified properly yet).
However, the good news is that despite the confusion, the shrimps that normally go by the name "Green" or "Dark Green" shrimp in the hobby are Caridina species, which means (from an interbreeding standpoint), they are safe to keep with a Neocaridina species such as Red Cherry Shrimp.
Things are never quite as simple as they seem!
As for trying to find C. babaulti cf. green, here is something I snipped from one of the most experienced dwarf shrimp breeders in the entire country:
As far as I know, there is no picture of the "real" C. babaulti in existence (at least not publicly). When I say "real" C. babaulti I am talking about the shrimp that was described about maybe 100 years ago. The truth of the matter is that there might not be a "real C. babaulti" as this species has a very wide range and seems to include populations/subspecies that not only differ in outward appearance but also in number of larval stages, i.e. life cycle. Hopefully someone will get around to revising the whole shrimp-scientific-name mess that has been sitting unrevised since the beginning of time. Then, you might or might not end up with a species that is called C. babaulti.
For our purposes, anything you see described as "Caridina babaulti" on the internet (and people conveniently leave out the "cf." part) is NOT C. babaulti. or most likely not C. babaulti (if the animal in the picture has not been identified properly yet).
However, the good news is that despite the confusion, the shrimps that normally go by the name "Green" or "Dark Green" shrimp in the hobby are Caridina species, which means (from an interbreeding standpoint), they are safe to keep with a Neocaridina species such as Red Cherry Shrimp.
Aremihc
Aquarium Advice Regular
Thanks John. I've found a ton of stuff online for aquariums, but almost all of it takes so much searching that it's easy to miss. The best livestock tip I've found is to always shop by scientific name in everything, plants, fish, shrimp, everything. Even Petco has the scientific name for everything you carry if you ask them to check their invoices.
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