I have been doing much more recent water changes in one tank (5g frog/snail/shrimp) since my frogs eyes got cloudy. I waited 4 days this last time so about 2-3 day longer than I have been doing for about a week and a half. I decided to check the parameters of the water I removed.. My ph was down to 6. It is now 7.2 after the water change with no buffering of any type done. My tap ph is 7.4-7.6 The ammonia & nitrites were both Zero, and nitrAtes were only 10. The other times I checked the levels prior to changing everything was normal, ph only as low as 7.0. What causes a ph drop like that?? Thanks in advance.
How/Why would ph crash?
- Thread starter Musket
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
Usually it is due to a lot of dissolved organic materials, lowering your kh. In many cases, it's attributed to "Old Tank Syndrome", though I can't say that is the case for you.
Test your kh in your tank and in your tap. It would have to be <3dkh to cause ph drops like that.
Test your kh in your tank and in your tap. It would have to be <3dkh to cause ph drops like that.
coldmachineUK
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I'd actually like to know what people think too: a friend recently had a pH crash in one tank causing some deaths, sadly. We still can't trace the cause though it's the first time we have both seen it happen so could easily have missed something.
Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
I can speak from experience. A year ago, I had a sudden ph crash in my 30 gal tank. This was despite a strict regimen of 25-30% PWC's weekly. I tested my kh and found it to be <3dkh, when it was normally steady at 3dkh. When I changed the water, the ph would go back to it's normal 7.2 and then drop like a rock to 6.4/6.3 within a few days. All livestock was accounted for.
It was suggested that I had "Old tank Syndrome", which couldn't be true; the tank was only 8 months old and again, regular PWC's were being performed which should have corrected the condition naturally. In comparsion, I have another 75 gal tank which did not have this problem.
I was stumped...until it came time to do my monthly filter maintenance. Upon removing the filter foam, to my surprise I found dozens of dead ramshorn snails. The flesh was decomposing all that time, adding organic matter to the water column all day, every day via the filter.
The snails were introduced to the tank by accident, I do have them in my 75 gal by choice. Once that was corrected, everything was fine.
It was suggested that I had "Old tank Syndrome", which couldn't be true; the tank was only 8 months old and again, regular PWC's were being performed which should have corrected the condition naturally. In comparsion, I have another 75 gal tank which did not have this problem.
I was stumped...until it came time to do my monthly filter maintenance. Upon removing the filter foam, to my surprise I found dozens of dead ramshorn snails. The flesh was decomposing all that time, adding organic matter to the water column all day, every day via the filter.
The snails were introduced to the tank by accident, I do have them in my 75 gal by choice. Once that was corrected, everything was fine.
Humm, I do not have a KH tester. Will the LFS test for this? I've never had them tell me about it before.
So possibly my overfeeding the last few days caused it? I have added brine shrimp 3 days ago, and I know I added too many HGH soft pellets with Krill for 2 days. They munch everything down so quick you'd think it wasn't too much, but maybe it was..
So possibly my overfeeding the last few days caused it? I have added brine shrimp 3 days ago, and I know I added too many HGH soft pellets with Krill for 2 days. They munch everything down so quick you'd think it wasn't too much, but maybe it was..
Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
I don't know if you LFS can or will test kh for you, but you can ask.
ph this morning, less than 24 hours from last water change is 6.6. I cleaned the hob sponge pads, it also has a mat filter floss kinda pad. Nothing unusual. Doing a 50% water change. Going to look for dead critters. I did see only one of my 4 shrimp.... But they hide well, and if died in the open, I'm sure would have been eaten by now.
Okay, just did the water change. Ph is back to 7.2, no additives. I did see 2-3 brine shrimp get sucked up. Perhaps that was the problem? I'll continue to monitor the ph and vacuum daily with water changes if necessary.
Out of curiosity, I checked the ph on one of the other tanks I changed yesterday. That ph dropped to 6.6 as well. Nothing dead... I rinsed the filter sponge, there was a little slime in it.
What is going on here?
Okay, just did the water change. Ph is back to 7.2, no additives. I did see 2-3 brine shrimp get sucked up. Perhaps that was the problem? I'll continue to monitor the ph and vacuum daily with water changes if necessary.
Out of curiosity, I checked the ph on one of the other tanks I changed yesterday. That ph dropped to 6.6 as well. Nothing dead... I rinsed the filter sponge, there was a little slime in it.
What is going on here?
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
A couple simple stupid questions to get these out of the way:
-you are not adding CO2 correct?
-do you use any products other than dechlor when adding water? (ie buffers such as baking soda, etc?)
-what type of water are you on? (tap, well, RO, etc.)
-what is your substrate composed of?
-what type of filter are you using? (UGF, HOB, canister, etc)
-what is your nitrAte levels in the tank?
-what is your tank lighting? (watts and type?)
-any recent algae outbreak?
If you have lots of decaying material your nitrAte levels should be sky high in a well established tank.
-you are not adding CO2 correct?
-do you use any products other than dechlor when adding water? (ie buffers such as baking soda, etc?)
-what type of water are you on? (tap, well, RO, etc.)
-what is your substrate composed of?
-what type of filter are you using? (UGF, HOB, canister, etc)
-what is your nitrAte levels in the tank?
-what is your tank lighting? (watts and type?)
-any recent algae outbreak?
If you have lots of decaying material your nitrAte levels should be sky high in a well established tank.
Voodoo Chilli
Aquarium Advice FINatic
The most important piece of information needed to get to the cause of your problem is what your KH levels are, both from the tank and straight from whatever water source you're using to fill the tank.
-you are not adding CO2 correct? Correct no CO2
-do you use any products other than dechlor when adding water? (ie buffers such as baking soda, etc?) Dechlor only
-what type of water are you on? (tap, well, RO, etc.) City tap water, ph 7.4 today from tap
-what is your substrate composed of? aquarium gravel, the little stuff, smaller than a pea most of it. Decor is a pice of reddish slate, a domed rock with riccia and java fern just starting to attach, a small resin aquarium castle, some real shells (4), a few 1/4 of your palm sized stones, and plants. a big anubius nana, bacopa, polysperma (sp?) sunset, ambulia, dwarf sag, anacharis, red root floater and floating water sprite. something else I can't remember the name of tiny little thing. Oh and a plastic anubuis. Only new item is the red root floater. Everything else has been in the tank the whole time.
-what type of filter are you using? (UGF, HOB, canister, etc) 5g tank, red sea nano filter hob, 2 sponges and a filter floss type pad, This filter has a sponge 1.5 x 3 inches on the intake tube - in case I get baby shrimp someday... and an elite internal with a sponge inside
-what is your nitrAte levels in the tank? 10 before yesterdays water change so I didn't bother to check them after.
-what is your tank lighting? (watts and type?) Compact florescent screw in, I believe it is a 10w. Can't check, I'd burn myself...
-any recent algae outbreak? just the green stuff that grows on the glass. It grows slow. I just took some off, but I don't think it is an "outbreak", I mean it didn't just all appear in 24-48 hours..
If I can I will bring a tank sample and a tap sample to the store today and see if they can test the kh. This is one kit I do not have. Hope this helps. Thanks.
-do you use any products other than dechlor when adding water? (ie buffers such as baking soda, etc?) Dechlor only
-what type of water are you on? (tap, well, RO, etc.) City tap water, ph 7.4 today from tap
-what is your substrate composed of? aquarium gravel, the little stuff, smaller than a pea most of it. Decor is a pice of reddish slate, a domed rock with riccia and java fern just starting to attach, a small resin aquarium castle, some real shells (4), a few 1/4 of your palm sized stones, and plants. a big anubius nana, bacopa, polysperma (sp?) sunset, ambulia, dwarf sag, anacharis, red root floater and floating water sprite. something else I can't remember the name of tiny little thing. Oh and a plastic anubuis. Only new item is the red root floater. Everything else has been in the tank the whole time.
-what type of filter are you using? (UGF, HOB, canister, etc) 5g tank, red sea nano filter hob, 2 sponges and a filter floss type pad, This filter has a sponge 1.5 x 3 inches on the intake tube - in case I get baby shrimp someday... and an elite internal with a sponge inside
-what is your nitrAte levels in the tank? 10 before yesterdays water change so I didn't bother to check them after.
-what is your tank lighting? (watts and type?) Compact florescent screw in, I believe it is a 10w. Can't check, I'd burn myself...
-any recent algae outbreak? just the green stuff that grows on the glass. It grows slow. I just took some off, but I don't think it is an "outbreak", I mean it didn't just all appear in 24-48 hours..
If I can I will bring a tank sample and a tap sample to the store today and see if they can test the kh. This is one kit I do not have. Hope this helps. Thanks.
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
Well with such a small tank it definately does not take much to cause wild pH swings if your KH is low. Everything else seems to be in proper order from your answers.
Do us a favor though. Take some tap water and sit it out overnight and then take the pH and report back.
Do us a favor though. Take some tap water and sit it out overnight and then take the pH and report back.
JRagg
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Leave your tap water sitting out for 24 hours before testing it (after adding a dechlor) and see what you get.
My tap has a pH of >9 coming out of the facet, but is down to about 7.6-7.8 within a day of sitting in my tank. It doesn't go any lower than that.
As stated, KH determines your pH under normal circumstances.
My tap has a pH of >9 coming out of the facet, but is down to about 7.6-7.8 within a day of sitting in my tank. It doesn't go any lower than that.
As stated, KH determines your pH under normal circumstances.
I didn't read this until this morning but I did leave some water in the bucket (w/ dechlor) from the water change yesterday. So it has been 24 hours and ph is 7.4
Tank ph this morning is 6.7??? I fed only one time yesterday after the pwc and maybe only 1/4 of normal feed.
Tank ph this morning is 6.7??? I fed only one time yesterday after the pwc and maybe only 1/4 of normal feed.
I did not change the water yesterday to see what would happen. The ph today at 48 hrs is 6.4, so it has gone down again, just not so drastic. I'm tempted to leave it another day but afraid if it continues what the results would be to the critters in there.
I am trying to find something to take some samples in with, if the store even tests for kh. What do you think, a tank sample befroe and after a water change? A fresh from the tap sample and a 48hr treated water sample (dechlor only)??
My ph of the water in the bucket is still 7.4 after 48 hours.. This makes me lean towards not a fresh water issue... Unless of course it is a kh thing like you guys think..
Okay then, here is a twist to the puzzel... If indeed it is a water thing, should this not be happening???? I have a 1g grow out tank for my baby snails. There are about 40 pea sized babies in a 1g tank *yes I know it's time to move them* with an hob filter on the back and a baby java fern and a red root floater in there. The water was changed 2 days ago at the same time as the "issue" tank... In fact I think it was from the same bucket of treated water.... their ph this morning 48 hours later, is still 7.4....??
Any ideas?
I am trying to find something to take some samples in with, if the store even tests for kh. What do you think, a tank sample befroe and after a water change? A fresh from the tap sample and a 48hr treated water sample (dechlor only)??
My ph of the water in the bucket is still 7.4 after 48 hours.. This makes me lean towards not a fresh water issue... Unless of course it is a kh thing like you guys think..
Okay then, here is a twist to the puzzel... If indeed it is a water thing, should this not be happening???? I have a 1g grow out tank for my baby snails. There are about 40 pea sized babies in a 1g tank *yes I know it's time to move them* with an hob filter on the back and a baby java fern and a red root floater in there. The water was changed 2 days ago at the same time as the "issue" tank... In fact I think it was from the same bucket of treated water.... their ph this morning 48 hours later, is still 7.4....??
Any ideas?
I have left treated tap water out for 72 hours and the ph remains a steady 7.4. I am now going to redo the test with untreated tap water - just to see if there is a difference.
Of the 3 stores I went to, none offered Just a KH test kit. They came in a big kit for salt water testing only.
I brought some tap water, treated tap water-aged and tank water before a water change to the LFS. They used a test strip and it showed an alkalinity and a GH (I believe). In all 3 samples the alkalinity (which I have been told is another name for KH - is this true?) was the first marker on the test strip - according to the chart that is what it is supposed to be. I did not get a number reading, just that it was the first splotch on the strip in the color chart. The GH was very similar in each test and was somewhere btw 150-300. the "reader chart" showed 150 and 300 and the color was a bit over the 150, but not quite the 300. The store said one was slightly higher than the others but they all looked the same to me. I hope this helps some.
I am still looking for crushed coral, all I can find is hermit crab - calcium carbonate sand.
Of the 3 stores I went to, none offered Just a KH test kit. They came in a big kit for salt water testing only.
I brought some tap water, treated tap water-aged and tank water before a water change to the LFS. They used a test strip and it showed an alkalinity and a GH (I believe). In all 3 samples the alkalinity (which I have been told is another name for KH - is this true?) was the first marker on the test strip - according to the chart that is what it is supposed to be. I did not get a number reading, just that it was the first splotch on the strip in the color chart. The GH was very similar in each test and was somewhere btw 150-300. the "reader chart" showed 150 and 300 and the color was a bit over the 150, but not quite the 300. The store said one was slightly higher than the others but they all looked the same to me. I hope this helps some.
I am still looking for crushed coral, all I can find is hermit crab - calcium carbonate sand.
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
This is an odd mystery then. I would have thought if the problem was similar to Jchillin's, you would easily tell by very high nitrAte levels (from all the decomposing matter).
I keep coming back to the nitrAte test....can you confirm again that you are doing the test EXACTLY by the instructions? We've had a couple members that didn't actually shake the bottles or tubes for the specified amount of time, and this can really throw off the values.
I keep coming back to the nitrAte test....can you confirm again that you are doing the test EXACTLY by the instructions? We've had a couple members that didn't actually shake the bottles or tubes for the specified amount of time, and this can really throw off the values.
kostasonia
Aquarium Advice Freak
I wonder if for measuring the pH correctly, this should be done every day at the same time.
Its different measuring it just before the lights switch on (lower oxygen concentration) or after having the lights on for 10 hours.
I read somewhere that a difference of 0.2-0.5 in the pH is actually normal.
I always take measurements maximum once per day, and always at the same time.
does anybody have experience on this??
Its different measuring it just before the lights switch on (lower oxygen concentration) or after having the lights on for 10 hours.
I read somewhere that a difference of 0.2-0.5 in the pH is actually normal.
I always take measurements maximum once per day, and always at the same time.
does anybody have experience on this??
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
The biggest problem is in a planted tank with CO2 being used. How much did the pH go up pouring into a vial? Where do you pull your sample FROM in the tank? Near the substrate, at the surface, away from your plants, etc? All of these cause problems with reproducability.
i don't mean to over take this tread and my question is related and i didn't feel a new tread should be made, so here goes:
my tap water is 72 PPM KH and i have always had ph around 7.6 in my tanks. now i have a 75 gal tank with driftwood in it and the water is slightly yellow colored and the KH is 36 PPM with a PH of 6.6. this is after a 30% PWC on friday.
so the question is: at what point do i need to buffer my water? i am worried that i my end up like Musket with a constantly dropping PH.
my tap water is 72 PPM KH and i have always had ph around 7.6 in my tanks. now i have a 75 gal tank with driftwood in it and the water is slightly yellow colored and the KH is 36 PPM with a PH of 6.6. this is after a 30% PWC on friday.
so the question is: at what point do i need to buffer my water? i am worried that i my end up like Musket with a constantly dropping PH.
I have been taking ph within 30 mins of each other daily. It was suggested to me to also take them at the same time at night to "see" if there is a big swing. So in the morning it is before lights on, and in the evening lights have been on 10-11 hours. So far there is no difference.
I take my sample from the top. I dip in my vial and drain 2-3 times before actually taking the sample. The plants are more to the middle and back and I take the sample from the front. The tank has pretty good flow, so i would say it's pretty mixed up anyway. If the critters get in the right place they can sail across the tank with no expulsion of their own energy.
I have no CO2 in this tank.
I have taken several nitrAte readings and all are 10. I shake my bottles prior to using, I shake the 2nd bottle again before the drops are added, I do shake for 60 seconds, I set a timer then leave for 5 mins with another timer. I'm doing another right now. Seems like the nitrAtes have jumped a little, appears to be at 20. Perhaps because of the added bioload of the newly hatched baby snails. And I went back to almost regular feeding. PH is 7.2 so the baking soda is working. It still drops .1-.3 in 24 hours, but at least it is above 6 now. (so far)
When you read your tests, do you hold your vial against the test reader card or away from but next to it so your vial is still over the white card, but light can get through? The reading is different if you hold the vial against the card. I've always held it away.
I'll do another water change today without vacuuming the gravel. I think I buried a few babies yesterday, and that may be why my NitrAtes are up today.
rkilling1 - I think you should try another water change and see what happens. Check ph daily to see if it is dropping or consistently low. If either it is time now to act.
I take my sample from the top. I dip in my vial and drain 2-3 times before actually taking the sample. The plants are more to the middle and back and I take the sample from the front. The tank has pretty good flow, so i would say it's pretty mixed up anyway. If the critters get in the right place they can sail across the tank with no expulsion of their own energy.
I have no CO2 in this tank.
I have taken several nitrAte readings and all are 10. I shake my bottles prior to using, I shake the 2nd bottle again before the drops are added, I do shake for 60 seconds, I set a timer then leave for 5 mins with another timer. I'm doing another right now. Seems like the nitrAtes have jumped a little, appears to be at 20. Perhaps because of the added bioload of the newly hatched baby snails. And I went back to almost regular feeding. PH is 7.2 so the baking soda is working. It still drops .1-.3 in 24 hours, but at least it is above 6 now. (so far)
When you read your tests, do you hold your vial against the test reader card or away from but next to it so your vial is still over the white card, but light can get through? The reading is different if you hold the vial against the card. I've always held it away.
I'll do another water change today without vacuuming the gravel. I think I buried a few babies yesterday, and that may be why my NitrAtes are up today.
rkilling1 - I think you should try another water change and see what happens. Check ph daily to see if it is dropping or consistently low. If either it is time now to act.
Similar threads
