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Old 07-07-2007, 09:51 PM   #1
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New Aquarium & New Member

Good evening everyone!

My lady friend and I just started our first aquarium. It's a 10 gallon, moderately planted (about 6 live plants) and has had it's first tragedy in under a week (like a lot of noobies).

A couple days after letting the empty tank balance itself out, we added 3 Tiger barbs named Fatty, Flounder, and Nemo (she named Flounder and Nemo, go figure). Just over a day later, I checked the water for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates and found everything to be ideal. So I added two Tinfoil barbs named Cobalt and Zinc.

A day later, I came home, fed them, checked the water quality again and found that ammonia levels risen to around 0.01. I didn't think anything of it, so I went to dinner. When I come home, I found that my mom told my sister to disconnect my air pump powering my drawbridge for my tiny castle. She thought it was scaring the fish. But most importantly, Flounder was breathing slowly and floating aimlessly around the tank. Not even 5 minutes later he drifted to the bottom of the tank and died.

I performed a 1/3 water change, treating the water of course, and also picked up a beefier filter (Top Fin 10). Currently having both filters running before I disconnect the old one. I want the bacteria colonies to build up in my new filter before I completely disconnect and remove the old one.

If you experienced fish freaks have any pointers for me, I'd gladly hear them!

Thanks!

<edit>Oh! And here are some pictures of my aquarium:

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w...t=e3c80a31.pbw
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:30 PM   #2
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Welcome to AA!!!

You don't have much bacteria grown so the filter question is kind of mute. You need to check your parameters daily and do water changes to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels under .5 ppm. You stocking is not good but I will leave that for the barb keepers here.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:29 AM   #3
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Welcome to AA!!!

You don't have much bacteria grown so the filter question is kind of mute. You need to check your parameters daily and do water changes to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels under .5 ppm. You stocking is not good but I will leave that for the barb keepers here.
Hey thanks!

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You stocking is not good but I will leave that for the barb keepers here
You think so? I was reading that the general rule of thumb was 1" per 1 gallon of water. At their current size, that'd leave me about 4 more inches to work with. Thinking of upgrading to a 30 gallon in a month or so. I quickly found that the fish I want wont do so well in a 10 gallon.
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:49 AM   #4
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Rich is correct, the stocking is not good. The guideline is 1" per gal of adult size. And then there are the exceptions with fish that are aggressive or have a lot of girth. The "guideline" really only work with small community fish such as Tetras, guppies, cories, etc. Tiger Barbs would be better in at least a 30 gal tank as they are semi-aggressive. Tin Foil barbs grow up to 14" in size. To keep those guys you're looking at a massive tank. IMO they shouldn't be sold to the general public. They grow far too big and most aquarists don't have the means to house them.

Keep up with the daily testing, do water changes as needed, and definitely re-think the stocking. 10 gal tanks don't give much to work with. You're looking at only stocking peaceful small fish. Welcome to AA!
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:45 PM   #5
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Rich is correct, the stocking is not good. The guideline is 1" per gal of adult size. And then there are the exceptions with fish that are aggressive or have a lot of girth. The "guideline" really only work with small community fish such as Tetras, guppies, cories, etc. Tiger Barbs would be better in at least a 30 gal tank as they are semi-aggressive. Tin Foil barbs grow up to 14" in size. To keep those guys you're looking at a massive tank. IMO they shouldn't be sold to the general public. They grow far too big and most aquarists don't have the means to house them.

Keep up with the daily testing, do water changes as needed, and definitely re-think the stocking. 10 gal tanks don't give much to work with. You're looking at only stocking peaceful small fish. Welcome to AA!
Yikes! And Petsmart was recommending a 5+ gallon tank for Tigers and a 10+ gallon tank for Tinfoils. I also read (at the store) that Tinfoils adult size are 6"s, I'm confused! Other articles online say they can grow up to 13". In any case, I already told my lady friend that I'm looking to upgrade tanks in a month or so. It seems all the fish I really like need a bigger tanks anyway.

Performed a 30% water change yesterday and still have both filters running. Tested the water and ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are at a solid 0.

Is there such thing as too much filtration? I'm thinking about just letting both filters run from now on. Looks a little awkward, but I don't mind.

<edit> Just remembered Petsmart has a 14 day return policy. You think I should return the Tinfoils? How would I go about transporting them back to the store if I do?
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:53 PM   #6
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For future reference, use http://www.fishbase.org/search.php to research fish before buying. I wouldn't trust places like petsmart, petco, etc. According to fishbase, the max size for tinfoil barbs is 35 cm, which is almost 14 inches.

There really is no such thing as too much filtration, but there is such thing as too much current that usually comes with alot of filtration (and some fish cannot handle alot of current).
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:25 PM   #7
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Blaze is right, there isn't such a thing as too much filtration but the current may be a bit too much. Depends on which fish you use.

Yes, return the Tin Foil barbs. And you have probably learned a big lesson here in fish keeping. Don't trust anyone or any information you receive at the lfs. It's a very common mistake, I think every fish keeper has done it. They are out to make money and will sell you anything to make a quick buck. That's why they have all those unnecessary chemicals and additives. Not to mention the endless array of test strips.

BTW, are you using a test strip or liquid reagent kit?
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Fishyfanatic
Blaze is right, there isn't such a thing as too much filtration but the current may be a bit too much. Depends on which fish you use.

Yes, return the Tin Foil barbs. And you have probably learned a big lesson here in fish keeping. Don't trust anyone or any information you receive at the lfs. It's a very common mistake, I think every fish keeper has done it. They are out to make money and will sell you anything to make a quick buck. That's why they have all those unnecessary chemicals and additives. Not to mention the endless array of test strips.

BTW, are you using a test strip or liquid reagent kit?
I'm using test strips. I saw liquid reagent kits, though.

How would I go about returning these Tinfoils? Or since I'm upgrading to a larger tank in about a month, should I just hold onto them? They're only a few months old, according to the rep.

You can see my Red-tailed Tinfoil Barbs here. They're barely over one inch in length. After checking the sticker at the LFS, they claim their adult size is 8". Still too big for my tank, but nearly half of what the rest of my resources state.
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:31 PM   #9
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How big are you upgrading to?

75 gallons should be fine for the tinfoils....125 would be even better (tinfoils = good excuse to get a larger tank).
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:33 PM   #10
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How big are you upgrading to?

75 gallons should be fine for the tinfoils....125 would be even better (tinfoils = good excuse to get a larger tank).
Hrm, not sure if I have enough room for a 75 gallon. Currently have my 10 gallon sitting on my desk sharing space with my PC. My girlfriend would get so ticked if I all of a sudden get a tank that's more than 5x larger.

I was looking at a 40 gallon tank with a shelf that I can tuck into a dead space corner.
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:43 PM   #11
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A 40 gal breeder (36"x18"x16") or a 40 gal long (48"x12"x16")?
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Old 07-08-2007, 10:16 PM   #12
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Even if you go with a 40, return them. They are best in schools and it's just not enough space to house them properly. Since they have a 14 day policy just take them back in the bag and tell them you were given false information by the employee.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:50 PM   #13
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Blaze, not sure of the dimensions. It was one of those "I want that" moments when walking by the display.

Fishyfanatic, oki doki. Now let's hope I can find the receipt! Of course I have all the other receipts..
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Old 07-09-2007, 12:34 PM   #14
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Real briefly, I wanted to go back to the topic of reagent kits. As you know, some men are color blind. Now I don't think I'm totally colored blind as I pass all those color blind tests, but I'm having a tough time determining the shades of blue and green on these darned test strips. Would a reagent kit prove beneficial in my situation? Or is there some sort of digital reader for people like me?
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Old 07-09-2007, 12:43 PM   #15
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Everyone has trouble reading the tests. The important thing with the AP liquid ammonia kits is yellow is 0.
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Old 07-09-2007, 12:54 PM   #16
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With the API as long as Ammonia is yellow, you are good. If Nitrite isn't a sky blue, time for a water change. And if you can't differentiate the reds, do a water change. It's pretty easy with the API.
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Old 07-09-2007, 12:54 PM   #17
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Yeah, the ammonia test is, thankfully, the easiest for me to read. I have trouble reading the pH and water hardness though. Shades of blue (ph) and orange/brown (hardness) are too close to call.
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:29 PM   #18
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Nope, I can't find the receipt for the tinfoils. I read that the bare minimum tank size for them is like 55 gal? I'd also like to have Bala Sharks one day among other larger fish. What sized tank would you suggest? 75gal?
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:14 PM   #19
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Both fish listed grow large and prefer to be in schools. A 75 gal tank IMO would not suffice. The fish need to be able to comfortably turn around. They grow to 14". When you have, lets say, 7 of them together, you need enough for them to all live together and be able to turn around and swim freely without touching decor or each other.
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:26 PM   #20
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Both fish listed grow large and prefer to be in schools. A 75 gal tank IMO would not suffice. The fish need to be able to comfortably turn around. They grow to 14". When you have, lets say, 7 of them together, you need enough for them to all live together and be able to turn around and swim freely without touching decor or each other.
Thanks Fishyfanatic, you have any idea how quickly Tinfoils will grow? The display on their tank at the lfs said their adult size is 6". May sound ridiculous, but I'm hoping they're breeding a smaller breed of Tinfoils?

<edit> One more newbie question. Where can I go to edit my profile? I don't see the typical UserCP on the top of the page?
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