Sleek + Low Maintenance Tank Questions

[jetajockey]

TDS doesnt really pose a problem for fish.

Sure it can, and does.

I have heard it does but their is simply no evidence.

There's no evidence that a high level of TDS can be harmful to fish?

Here's a snippet from a site on TDS Total Dissolved Solids - TDS - ToxicWaterSolution.com

Some of the individual mineral salts that make up TDS pose a variety of health hazards. The most problematic are Nitrates, Sodium, Sulfates, Barium, Cadmium, Copper, and Fluoride.

Granted, plants will consume the nitrogenous waste, and to some extent some of the other stuff, but evaporation doesn't remove this stuff and it just gets more and more concentrated as time passes.

Here's another snippet, from Total dissolved solids

Source: kernsite.com: The Leading Kern Site Site on the Net

http://www.leo.lehigh.edu/envirosci/watershed/wq/wqbackground/tdsbg.html

PathFinder Science | Stream Monitoring | Creating the Context | Default

The effects of hardness on aquatic life depend on which cations are making the water "hard."

Concentration of total dissolved solids that are too high or too low may limit the growth and may lead to the death of many aquatic organisms.

High concentrations of total dissolved solids may reduce water clarity, which contributes to a decrease in photosynthesis and lead to an increase in water temperature. Many aquatic organisms cannot survive in high temperatures.

It is possible for dissolved ions to affect the pH of the body of water, which in turn may influence the overall health of many aquatic species.

If TDS levels are high, especially due to dissolved salts, many forms of aquatic life are affected. The salts act to dehydrate the skin of animals.

I know this is possible and the fish can do just as well as in a conventionally maintained tank.

I guess it'd depend on how one would define 'conventionally maintained'.

Unfortunately this idea is foriegn to alot of people but it is possible but not meant for most people.

or it's a bad idea, so people don't do it.

When yall can show me evidence that the fish are harmed by lack a pwcs in a properly setup "self-sustaining" tank then I will abandon the idea. So far no one has submitted the evidence.

Well I just gave you at least 2 links about the issues regarding TDS. There is a reason why this idea isn't popular, and it's not because its 'foreign' or not meant for most. If all you had to do was the low maintenance thing and the net result was the same as it would be for those who do frequent water changes, then it would make sense that more people would be doing the low maintenance thing, since no one likes doing unnecessary work.

And lets forget the average hobbyist for a minute, we could pass him off as someone who was just fed a line of bologna so he does weekly WC's because of paranoia.

Let's look at the fish farms and breeders. These people are in it as their livelihood. What is their maintenance schedule like? Could a fish breeder do the low/no maintenance thing and get the same result as they would compared to their normal maintenance routine? All of the ones I know have some sort of dilution method. Considering that they are one of the major factors that keeps this hobby alive, I would think that they know what they are doing.

A good pdf from American journal of environmental sciences http://thescipub.com/pdf/10.3844/ajessp.2007.1.6
If you need me to dig around for more evidence I will, just let me know.

 

[tiger terror]

Sorry for the low quality iphone

Really find it hard to believe that you'be not so much as even added any water,in 6 months that tank would be half empty at least..

 

[Fishy Aston]

You've been told more times than I've changed underwear in the last year that it won't work. I guess some people learn the hard way... I don't wish for you to fail, nor does anyone here, but if you continue to disregard advice because you think it's incorrect, especially the advice from people who have been keeping fish longer than you've been alive, you're bound to.

My grandad has a tank it has a auto feeder and a heater and filter it is 55 gallons.

He has thousand of shrimps and a few plecos and some other little fish.

He has never touched it and it doesnt look to different to mine and I do water changes every week!

 

[Fishy Aston]

My grandad has a tank it has a auto feeder and a heater and filter it is 55 gallons.

He has thousand of shrimps and a few plecos and some other little fish.

He has never touched it and it doesnt look to different to mine and I do water changes every week!

Only thing is he poured in some tap water about a month ago and didnt use any decholrinate and it was fine! Unbelivable

 

[jetajockey]

....nevermind, lol.

 

[tiger terror]

....nevermind, lol.

+100 to your knowledge of the hobby jetajockey..

 

[aquaponicpaw]

I think there are legitimate arguments on both sides. The fact that you are going to use a sponge filter, and have a very low stocking list contributes greatly to you having some success.

Most breeders are Huge fans of Spongefilters... I know I will never run a tank without one again. And Duckweed is a plant that is Now being studied and used for waste water treatment and pollution control. Enough cannot be said about the Pothos vine as well.

So far the only thing that you don't have in your favor is the size of the tank. As long as you stock in accordance with the size. I don't see any real issues that will arise.

I would concern myself with TDS only if: You were not running a Sponge filter, Were heavily stocked, or didn't have it heavily planted. But from the info. thus far. You seem to be on the right track.

I think the thing that turns most people off to your Idea is the reasoning behind it. "Laziness" and Fish keeping should never be mentioned in the same post. But for reasons of conservation and Sustainability I think Hobbyist need to take a closer look at ways to improve our Husbandry.

A large segment of the worlds population doesn't even have clean water for human consumption, let alone fishkeeping. This will become more of an issue within the coming decades. In the States there are many places where it is already an issue.

So as a fellow fishkeeper I see nothing wrong with what you are trying to do. And like myself I am sure that you are willing to intervene on behalf of your project before anything becomes dire.

My hands are always in all of my Tanks. From the most complex to the simplest one. My greatest recoomendation for You is to Make this a thread about what you are doing, And not for others to try to poke holes in your design. There are a Million arguments. Almost all have some validity to them.

 

[mfdrookie516]

My grandad has a tank it has a auto feeder and a heater and filter it is 55 gallons.

He has thousand of shrimps and a few plecos and some other little fish.

He has never touched it and it doesnt look to different to mine and I do water changes every week!

I'm sorry, but I would never admit that my tank looks like one that has been neglcted to the extent of 'never being touched'.

Only thing is he poured in some tap water about a month ago and didnt use any decholrinate and it was fine! Unbelivable

Congratulations? I'm not sure how else to respond to intentionally potentially poisoning/killing fish.

 

[GodFan]

I respect yalls opinions and advice but you dont listen to my statements so you twist my words. I never said that I was going to have a normally stocked tank! THAT is why everybody and breeders shouldnt do it! I am doing it for fun and am willing to have a less stocked tank for it.
By the way the definition of evidence is not being told. It is being given hard evidence whick nobody has done. My uncle has maintained a lightly stocked tank for 10+ years with no water changes. He tops off when needed and doesnt even use dechlorinator. Is this evidence? Yes but it is one case so it could be a fluke. I have read another thead where somebody didnt do water changes for 3 or 4 months. No problems. There is another where somebody skipped water changes for 6 monthes plus. No ill effects.
Anybody have a case where there was harm?
No offense to the naysayers but I didnt start this thread for you and only for those of us (there are some) who believe it can work and want to try. I will edit my op to reflect this.

 

[Readingexcalibur]

respect yalls opinions and advice but you dont listen to my statements so you twist my words. I never said that I was going to have a normally stocked tank! THAT is why everybody and breeders shouldnt do it! I am doing it for fun and am willing to have a less stocked tank for it.
By the way the definition of evidence is not being told. It is being given hard evidence whick nobody has done. My uncle has maintained a lightly stocked tank for 10+ years with no water changes. He tops off when needed and doesnt even use dechlorinator. Is this evidence? Yes but it is one case so it could be a fluke. I have read another thead where somebody didnt do water changes for 3 or 4 months. No problems. There is another where somebody skipped water changes for 6 monthes plus. No ill effects.
Anybody have a case where there was harm?
No offense to the naysayers but I didnt start this thread for you and only for those of us (there are some) who believe it can work and want to try. I will edit my op to reflect this.

I'm actually upset to here someone would not do a water change past a month. We act like fish are not alive or feel pain. This is like living a portopoty. The methane would eventually kill you.

 

[GodFan]

I'm actually upset to here someone would not do a water change past a month. We act like fish are not alive or feel pain. This is like living a portopoty. The methane would eventually kill you. Mabye I'm ignorant, haha, but wow

No sorry that was directed at a different group lol This is in a very specific setup in very specific circumstances.

 

[DragonFish71]

No sorry that was directed at a different group lol This is in a very specific setup in very specific circumstances.

You mean the group that has more experience and tries to give you the best advice possible?

You mean the group that has provided you links showing that what you're planning is a poor choice?

You yourself stated you were doing this out of laziness. That alone says to most on this site that you shouldn't be in charge of a life, whether it swims, barks or meows.

Oh, and don't bother reporting this, I'll report myself. I think what you are doing violates the ethics of fishkeeping.

 

[Readingexcalibur]

You mean the group that has more experience and tries to give you the best advice possible?

You mean the group that has provided you links showing that what you're planning is a poor choice?

You yourself stated you were doing this out of laziness. That alone says to most on this site that you shouldn't be in charge of a life, whether it swims, barks or meows.

Oh, and don't bother reporting this, I'll report myself. I think what you are doing violates the ethics of fishkeeping.

I don't think you can be reported for speaking your opinion on ethics in a thread that has clearly turned to the well being of aquatic life, which just so happens to be on a forum designed to assist people with these types of issues. Just my two cents.

 

[melosu58]

This thread has played out.