New to SW- Ammonia really high

[Sjerseymom]

I have had my tank set up some mid March. 75 gallon with Fluval canister, no sump but just ordered a DIY kit. No protein skimmer yet but will once I get the sump set up. Currently my Ammonia is extremely high. I have done may things to get it to drop & nothing is really working. Any suggestions I could try.
PH 7.8
Ammonia 8 (API kit)
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 5
Salinity 1.022
Phosphate 0
Alkalinity 9.9
Calcium 460
Magnesium 1350-1380
I did have a yellow tang & regal/hippo for a couple of weeks but lost them last weekend when everything crashed. Trying to get back up & running. My survivors are 2 OC clownfish, fire shrimp & some snails. I just added more live rock yesterday hoping to add some good bacteria to help break up the ammonia. The nitrite being registering is actually a good thing since it has been 0.

I am oh so open to any advice & suggestions. My LFS has been helpful but at this point beyond adding chemicals he is clueless what to try next. I don't want to mask a problem I want to solve the issue.


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[Sniperhank]

Pretty simple answer. Your tank was never cycled. If it had been presented an ammonia source before the fish, a bacteria base would have been established and you wouldn't have seen any ammonia or nitrite readings.
With that said you will need to do water changes to keep the ammonia down as it is burning the gills and poisoning your livestock. Adding bottled bacteria could assist with this, but it's never been fully studied to be proven.
Also, once you have things settled do some steady research before adding new fish. The tangs you had in the system get huge and need lots of swimming room, aka 6 ft long tanks minimum. There are tangs that can work in this tank, such as kole and bristle tooth.


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[Sjerseymom]

Thank you. I did start with damsels as a LFS suggested & did have what I thought was cycled ammonia, nitrites & nitrates readings. But a last I am here now having to technically "starting over". I do have a bottle of bacteria & have add it once hence why I think I now I read nitrites again. I hope what I have survives but will continue with the course. Not surprised & was ultimately thinking this was what was going on. Frustrating when you try to do what you are given only to really be set back.

Yes I have been researching the different fish & did learn about the tang. I will see what I can put in next but not until I am over confident it's cycled completely. Looking into the bubble tip anemone & know a LFS who keeps them stocked.


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[54seaweed]

one of the best suggestions I can give since snyperhank gave you the best answer.
Never trust a pet store clerk as they will tell you things just to get you to buy stuff ,
be sure to keep up on daily water changes till you get through the cycle. If you have a qt tank I would move the fire shrimp till the cycles done as he is the most fragile invert.
be sure to clean that canister weekly as they are nitrate factory's.
things like this prove qt tanks are beneficial , they also serve to observe new fish to be sure they eat and are healthy , and if you have a sick fish ,
how much LR do you have it's best to have 1 1/2 lbs per gallon but in a tank your size for a good startup is around 40 lbs than build from there just be sure it's cured first,

 

[Sjerseymom]

I have found out some are just in it to make a buck. I have found 2 great guys to talk to about this journey & these 2 have yet to mislead. The other guy I don't visit his shop anymore. I have added more live rock. Tested today and ammonia still high, nitrites are now 1, nitrates are about 30. PH down a little at 7.5 but from what I read keeping it in this lower end while the ammonia is high makes it not as toxic. I will be doing a partial water change. I have also add something called Nite Out 2 which says it's good to help for rapid ammonia & nitrite reduction as well as decreases toxicity. Seems since I add this the tank it is breaking my stalemate to cycle. I was only reading high ammonia & nitrates at 5. Now everything is reading.
I do have a small 15 gallon I can put the fire shrimp in & may even the 2 clowns. Also more brown algae. Thinks are starting to get moving. Again thanks everyone. You can only read so much until you have to reach out to those who know.


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[Sjerseymom]

Wanted to share ?


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[54seaweed]

very nice tank I love the shipwreck , Just so you are aware with that little rock I wouldn't add more stock till you can build up your rock , as the rock is what all the beneficial bacteria builds up on , and it will become live over time and also color up.
once you get everything up and holding you could get white base rock add a piece once a week so the bacteria builds,
but as long as you take your time you will get great results,*

 

[Sniperhank]

I agree with more live rock. That is where all the bacteria will be growing to support your system and avoid what already happened in the tank. The goal is 1 lbs per gallon. You can get macro or base rock to save money, since 'live' is always more expensive. The bacteria will establish itself in the rock through the cycling process it is going through now anyway.
With that said, avoid the anemone. They are sensitive creatures that require stable and pristine conditions. This can take up to 6 months to start to occur in a saltwater tank. Along with that, they need intense lighting to survive, something that currently is not on your system.

 

[Sjerseymom]

So excited! My tank finally cycled & looks better. My clownfish, fire shrimp & even my snails are even acting happier!
Pre-WC
PH 7.8
Ammonia 2
Nitrite 1-2
Nitrate 80
Post WC about 15-20%
PH 7.8
Ammonia 2
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 40
So excited to have my ammonia down when it was up to 8. Will keep watching & do some more research to see what my next addition will be.


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[chefbill]

As long as you are showing ammonia, your tank is not cycled. Ammonia is incredibly toxic and it will end up damaging your fish and inverts respiratory systems

 

[Sjerseymom]

Oh yes but so much better now. Plan on testing later tonight. I do have one of the seachem ammonia alert devices which is reading safe now. I don't know how accurate these are but so far has been on point.


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[54seaweed]

Looking at your readings your still not out of the woods

pre WC
PH 7.8
Ammonia 2
Nitrite 1-2
Nitrate 80

Post WC about 15-20%
PH 7.8
Ammonia 2 needs to be at 0 your ammonia didn't change
Nitrite 1 needs to be at 0 nitrite hasn't changed
Nitrate 40 your at the top of the scale for a fowler try to get around 20 , getting better but still could go down more.

I'm still concerned that there's not much live rock , the little you have will not support anymore stock .
adding more fish could crash the tank so do be careful

 

[Sjerseymom]

Thank you. Plan to get some more shortly. LFS kind of skimpy right now & expecting shipment soon. Also was told I can use Lava rock from the garden supply store & what good I have will go onto that. Any thoughts on that?

Yes just watch & wait game but you just don't know how excited I am with the numbers actually changing. Won't add any other creatures until I know they are good.


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[Sniperhank]

Don't use lava rock. Some can contain heavy metals that can leach into the water column, which can lead to not being able to keep coral or invertebrates if enough does if it's copper.


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[ccCapt]

You will be cycled when you have 0 nitrite and 0 ammonia. Keep doing water changes. There's an old saying..."the solution to pollution is dilution". Be patient and keep doing water changes and don't add any more livestock till your nitrite and ammonia is 0 and nitrate drops more.

 

[Sjerseymom]

Ph-8
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Salinity 1.024
Phosphate 0
Alkalinity 15 - believe an error in my part but will recheck tomorrow
Calcium 460
Magnesium 1290

Getting there ?


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[BigRedsReefs10]

So excited! My tank finally cycled & looks better. My clownfish, fire shrimp & even my snails are even acting happier!View attachment 286705
Pre-WC
PH 7.8
Ammonia 2
Nitrite 1-2
Nitrate 80
Post WC about 15-20%
PH 7.8
Ammonia 2
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 40
So excited to have my ammonia down when it was up to 8. Will keep watching & do some more research to see what my next addition will be.


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Ph-8
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Salinity 1.024
Phosphate 0
Alkalinity 15 - believe an error in my part but will recheck tomorrow
Calcium 460
Magnesium 1290

Getting there ?


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Those numbers are impossible, a 15-20% change can only drop #s by 15-20%. And unless you did a 90% change in water 35ppm of nitrate can't just disappear especially in a few hours


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[Sjerseymom]

Well either the test is in error or something else. I took out 3 -5 gallon buckets almost filled to the top. I have a 75 gallon tank. I just know my last ones from last night & will recheck in a day or so.


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[PB_Smith]

couple of suggestions;
seeing that the fluval canister is your filtration right now, turn it off when feeding so food isn't sucked into the canister to decay.
you need a LOT more rockwork in there, not only for the bacteria to colonize, but also to minimize the fishes stress levels.

It takes AT LEAST 6 weeks to cycle a tank, and that is only the aerobic half of the bacterial filter. Denitrifying bacteria that break down nitrate take a minimum of 10-12 weeks before they begin to take a foothold and start working at any degree that helps.

A fully cycled and conditioned saltwater set-up really takes about a year before things really settle into a stable biotope.

Plus no need to test anything beyond ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph at this stage.
testing the other parameters is a waste of reagent.
You only need to be concerned about those levels after you start adding coral to the tank. Your water changes will keep those parameters in check as far as fish are concerned.


and what's the temperature? should be around 78-82 for cycling to be efficient

 

[Sjerseymom]

Most recent check
Temp 80.7
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
Specific gravity- 1.024

I actually have a sump I am waiting on to be delivered then I can put it together & set it up. Plan to use some more rock in there. Plan on buying a couple more pieces but don't want the tank so crowded. But will try to get the right pieces to fit in & give some good hiding spots.

I have add a couple more snails & took a chance with a flaming angel. So far she is doing good- starting to come out more & not hiding as much. My 2 clownfish are still doing good as well as my fire shrimp. Slow & steady but being real careful in what I add & how fast. Next if he comes in will get my red scooter blenny. Just hoping one comes in the shipment.


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