Ammonia Help Required

[Princess1982]

Hi All

I am relatively new to fish keeping. Started about a year ago by mistake! I rescued a lovely common goldfish from a friend who insisted on keeping it in a bowl so I thought I would give it a better home in a 54 litre Aquarium I was left by a friend. I then added 3 new fish and this is when I became aware of how difficult fish keeping can be! Noone told me anything about cycling a tank or about the pitfalls for a beginner. After experiencing a few problems I got online and started reading forums and realised I had basically done everything wrong! Thankfully I didn't lose any fish.

But anyway, the problem I am having now is that I upgraded to a larger tank (180 litre Fluval) and I seem to be struggling with the cycle all over again. I have had it nearly 2 months and added the existing tank water and old filter to the new tank to help the cycle as advised by my LFS. I also added a larger much more powerful filter suited to my new tank. Regretably, I had also aquired a couple more 1 inch fish so thought I would add them a week later as everything seemed to be going OK with the new tank. But now the ammonia has risen and I can't seem to get it down. I do a 10% water change every couple of days like I did when I cycled my old tank and have reduced the feeding of my fish. But I cannot get the ammonia less than 0.25ppm and I have been doing this for nearly 2 months now. I used to use nutrafin cycle but had been told that it actually hinders the tank cycle so I stopped using it. What is the best thing to do to get the ammonia level down once and for all?

I have just tested my water and the readings are as follows:


Nitrate - 20ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Ammonia - 0.25ppm
High Range PH - 8


Many thanks in advance for your help!!

 

[chevy_guy2002]

doing PWC may help, but it sounds like the tank is still cycling.

 

[LyndaB]

Goldfish are really messy fish, so you have to do a minimum of 50% water changes weekly, once you're cycled.

Since you have an ammonia reading, you should be doing probably 3 water changes per week.

API test kit?

 

[librarygirl]

Hi, a larger water change would take it down, like a 50% water change. Have you tested your tap water for ammonia just to see if there's any in there? A 10% water change wouldn't make much difference in the levels so you'd want to do a larger one (50%). What are you using for your dechlorinator? Are you using a liquid test kit or strips?

Also exactly what kind of fish and how many of each do you have in the tank now? It may be overstocked hence the toxin spike. The 1" of fish per gallon rule isn't really valid IMO.

 

[Princess1982]

Hi All

Thanks for your replies.

I have tried to add my tank details at the bottom of my messages but I'm not sure how to do it! They are as follows:

180L Fluval with lights, no heater

1 x leopard plec
1 x black moor
1 x panda moor
1 x white ranchu
1 x red cap oranda
1 x calico ryukin
1 x common goldfish

All approx 1 - 2 inches but will get a larger tank when the time calls for it

I have just done a 25% water change but will do a larger one next time. I have also added some nutrafin cycle too as I am worried about the ammonia levels being high so long. I can see some red streaks appearing in one of my fish's tail.

I have been using Aquasafe but ran out and have now purchased some Nutrafin Aqua+. Seems to very better value for money and you use a lot less!

I have a master test kit (liquid) as I believe these are more accurate than strips.

So how often do you think I should be changing the water now and how much each time? I haven't tested my tap water but I will do so later today. Good idea - I never thought of that!

Thanks very much for all your help.

 

[LyndaB]

Now we can see your issue. It is recommended to have 20 gallons for a goldfish and than an additional 10 gallons for every goldfish thereafter. You'd need a huge tank to accommodate the amount of waste those fish are producing.

Unless you rehome some, I don't think you're going to get over this ammonia issue. It's not safe for the fish.

Your fish is exhibiting symptoms of ammonia poisoning. You should be doing daily 50% water changes right now.

 

[Princess1982]

Thanks for letting me know. Everyone you speak to seems to give you a different answer when you ask how many fish you can have. My LFS told me I could have 6 so that is what I bought. I did end up adopting one more which I probably shouldn't have done but she had 2 fish in a small bowl and it just seemed cruel :-(

I will do much larger water changes from now on and hope that helps. They are only small at the moment but I am fully prepared to get a larger tank when they start to grow. Just can't quite afford it yet.

I also read that when a new tank is cycling it is quite common to have ammonia readings of 0.25ppm or even higher. Could it be that the tank is just still cycling?

Thanks

 

[LyndaB]

It's possible.... but again, with your particular stocking, it's something you'll always have to watch for.

The lfs have been known to lie to just about every fishkeeper. It's because they just haven't done the research so they don't have the proper knowledge to share. Pity really.

 

[jlk]

180 litres is approximately 47 gallons. As Lynda stated, you are WAY overstocked! 3 goldfish is about the maximum for this size tank for them to be healthy & thriving. A fourth may be possible is you are doing regular, large water changes & your tank is cycled. A common goldfish which grow quickly to be 12-18inches would need to be to be in this size tank all by himself (for now)and realistically should be in a pond environment. The fancies really shouldnt be intermixed due to their various handicaps (ie-the moors are visually impaired). You really need to start doing daily (or twice daily) large pwcs to get the ammonia levels down to zero until you can figure out what you want to do in respect to your fish (rehome, larger tank, another big tank). Please keep asking questions if you are unsure about anything!

 

[Princess1982]

Thanks for all your help. So frustrating that the pet shops can't be trusted. I thought I had been so careful asking them for loads of advice before upgrading my tank and buying new fish. How annoying!

I do have a 54 litre tank too but I kept it purely as a spare. I guess I will have to put a couple of them in that tank. Just seems so bizarre to have such a massive tank and only put 4 fish in it. It looks empty! But I will do what I must. Cycling 2 tanks simultaneously is going to be fun!

 

[LyndaB]

Yeah, in this case, it's not HOW MANY fish, it's WHAT KIND of fish.... you could have a great community in a tank that size.

But if goldfish are your thing, you really have no choice but to rehome or seriously upgrade.

 

[Princess1982]

The only reason I got goldfish was because I rescued one to start with so had to stick with the same kind but also because I thought it would be easier than tropical! Had I have known then what I know now I would have rehomed the first goldfish and started a tropical tank!

But as it is I have fallen in love with the fish I have so can't get rid of them. I will look into getting a larger tank. This is turning into one very difficult and expensive hobby! Lol

 

[jlk]

LOL!! Join the club!!!

 

[nextgeneration40]

It's possible.... but again, with your particular stocking, it's something you'll always have to watch for.

The lfs have been known to lie to just about every fishkeeper. It's because they just haven't done the research so they don't have the proper knowledge to share. Pity really.

lol I asked a lady in the fish department if I could have some of their used filter material...she said "ewww gross why would you want that" we have the bottled kind"... (I left at that point)

 

[LyndaB]

I would've slapped her upside the head and then left.....

 

[Princess1982]

Sorry for long reply.

I took your advice and tested the tap water in my area and the result is the exact same colour as the result from the tank. The colour isn't bright yellow but got a slight greenish tinge to it so I think it is 0.25ppm. I have attached a pic of the results and the colour card - please someone tell me if I am being stupid and the result is in fact 0. It just doesn't look bright yellow like on the card!

If I am correct and the reading is 0.25ppm what do I do? This is how the water is coming out of my tap. I use Tetra Aqua + water conditioner and add some nutrafin cycle after water changes as I thought the high ammonia reading was just because my tank was still cycling.

Thanks in advance!

 

[joejeff]

I bet you could gwet away with that arrangment if you doubled up your filtration

 

[jlk]

Hi! Ok skip the cycle-its not going to help anything & may in fact hurt your cycle. You should consider switching to a water conditioner like prime or amquel plus whhich will help to neutralize any amm/nitrite.nitrate that may come from your tap. Once your tank is fully cycled, it will bb will eat up any amm that is coming from your tap (my tap has .25 on any given day). But, this doesnt solve the issue of your tank being heavily overstocked with messy goldfish & the resulting problems from this situation. Have you considered yet how how you are going to approach this?

 

[Princess1982]

Yes I am going to get a larger tank. I am just asking questions on how to keep my little ones healthy in the meantime. Need to save up to get the size that I need!

I do currently have 2 filters running in the tank from when I was cycling so it has more filtration that it actually needs. I'm planning on keeping it this way rather than selling my old filter which was my original plan.

I will try a different water conditioner when I next buy one which will probably be soon. Doing large water changes every other day at the moment as I didn't realise the ammonia was actually coming from the tap. Good news its the tap water thats the problem and not anything else. Would you recommend still doing these large water changes every other day or reduce them now we know what is causing the higher ammonia levels? I have no other issues with nitrates/nitrites.

 

[jlk]

The large pwcs daily wont be necessary as long as you are monitoring your water parameters daily (if the amm goes above .25, you see any nitrites, nitrates rise above 10). Your tank has the ability to go toxic very quickly because its overstocked. You will still need to do maintenance pwcs weekly (i prefer 2x wk with goldfish) and gravel vac. And def keep both filters going-there is no such thing as too much filtration with goldfish!