Cycling with Dr. Tim’s Fishless Prescription

[h2oskierc]

Back to the hobby after a LONG time away. Starting a tank with my 10 year old daughter. She wants a beta, so we are doing a 10g tank. May do a small school of neon tetras or harlequin raspboras as well as some low light plants. Still up in the air on that.

We are following Dr. Tim’s Prescription for fishless cycling:

https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/FishlessCycling_prescription_recipe.pdf

Currently on day 7. Have added a total of 6ppm ammonia.

Current parameters are pH 8.1, Ammonia is at 4.0ppm and Nitrites are 1.0ppm. Haven’t measured nitrates yet because until Ammonia and Nitrites are 0, don’t really see the need.



Dr. Tim’s guide seems to think the aquarium may be ready for fish in two more days. Impressive, to be ready in 9 days potentially. Is my understanding that The tank
Isn’t ready for fish until the bio filter oxidizes 2.0 ppm ammonia in a 24 hour period (to 0ppm Ammonia and Nitrites), correct? If so, I don’t see adding fish in two days.

I know back in the day before I knew about cycling I just added fish. I’d rather not put us or the fish through that. Of course my six year old daughter doesn’t want to wait, but she is doing well.

Thanks! Chris

 

[Aiken Drum]

Yes you should be cycling out 2ppm of ammonia in 24 hours. The timelines given by Dr Tim are ambitious. This is much more likely to take a couple of months.

These products dont work as well as they claim, if they work at all. At best they speed up the cycling process from several months to several weeks. The quickest ive seen someone from this forum cycle a tank without using media taken from a cycled tank is 3 weeks. 6 to 8 weeks is typical. Often much longer.

We get a lot of traffic on this forum with new fish keepers struggling to cycle tanks. By far more people have issues with fishless cycling than fish in. They don't understand the process, expect it to run tona timetable etc. Almost without fail switching to fish in cycling sorts out their issues.

If you want to continue with fishless cycling stop following Dr Tims instructions. Stop dosing ammonia, wait till what you have in there cycles out. Whenever it drops below 1ppm redose back to 2ppm. When that 2ppm is cycled out to zero ammonia and nitrite in 24 hours you are cycled.

If you want to get a fish its fine. Do a 100% water change to get rid of the waste. Get your fish and follow a fish in cycle process which we can give you. The difference between what used to happen with fish in cycles and now is that safe practices are understood. What used to happen was you added fish, gradually added more, occasionally change some water, if fish died you replaced them, when they stopped dying you are cycled. Better testing is available now, and the thresholds where water conditions become toxic are understood. Water is kept well below toxic levels while leaving enough waste to grow your beneficial bacteria through water changes.

 

[h2oskierc]

I’m open to a fish in cycle. I just remember daily water changes and know I can’t keep that up for the long term, personally and also don’t want to harm the fish.

In 24 hours ammonia is down from 4.0 to what I will call 3.0. The color is between 2 and 4 on the API master test kit. Nitrite is steady at 1.0. Again, I didn’t test Nitrate. I am assuming there must be some there as the Nitrite is being oxidized.

I will search the forums for fish-in cycle instructions, unless you think I should not follow the typical instructions. Thanks for the feedback! I greatly appreciate it!

 

[Aiken Drum]

If you did switch to fish in, 1 betta in a 10g wont produce much waste. Might need a couple of water changes per week until things establish. I would start with 2 or 3 tetras first though and go from there. Its safer to introduce a betta last as it wont have decided the whole tank is his and then object to other fish invading its territory.

 

[h2oskierc]

Thanks! Would we be able to add 2-3 more tetras once the cycle is completed to have a larger “school” of them?

I’m not dead set on a betta tank, by the way. My daughter wanted one because they are so colorful, and I like that I don’t need a huge tank to have a betta and a few schooling fish. But I’d be open to a colorful and active setup.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I think there is a misunderstanding on what cycling means. Its not something that gets "completed".

Add 2 or 3 fish and when you are consistently seeing zero ammonia and nitrite you are cycled enough to support the fish currently in the tank. There will enough beneficial bacteria to support your bioload. It wont grow beyond the amount you need to cycle out the waste produced by the fish currently in your tank.

Add a few more fish and your cycle needs to catch up. Ie more waste will support more bacteria which will over time grow enough to consume the increased amount of waste. Add a few more fish etc etc.

This gradually adding more bioload is safer than introducing it all in one go because at no point are you introducing more bioload than your cycle can cope with alongside regular water changes.

In a similar manner your fishless cycle will cycle out 2ppm of ammonia in 24 hours. A moderately stocked tank will produce about 0.5ppm ammonia in 24 hours, and the ability to cycle out 2ppm in 24 hours has been established as enough to cycle out the waste produced by a moderately stocked without it ever registering on a test. If you were to add more than moderately stock levels you could get detectable ammonia and/ or nitrite and your cycle would need to catch up.

Personally i think a betta and small group of 6ish tetras would work in a 10g tank. Everytime you mix bettas with other fish its a risk though. You could swap the betta for a dwarf gourami or have a bigger group of tetras, maybe 8 or 9 small ones like neons.