Fishless cycle going faster then I expected, need help stocking...

[Joey P]

So, I started my fishless cycle on a 40G tank on (about) the 14th. Dosed it up to what I know realize was probably too high. It sat at 7ppm for the first few days and then suddenly dropped down to 1 or 2ppm. I checked the nitrites and they were climbing, nitrates were at zero. I added half the ammonia I started with and it went back down. This morning, ammonia was at about 1ppm, I added the same as I did a few days ago (half the original amount). Right now, ammonia was back below zero, Nitrites were off the chart and Nitrates are doing well (about 10+/-).

From what I can tell, my cycle is coming along nicely and I get the feeling I'll be ready to add fish in the next few days. I'll be out of town this Saturday and Sunday, so I'm thinking, even if it does seem ready, I'll at least wait until after I get back.

So, this got away from me and now I need to know what to put in it. I have some neons in another little tiny 2g tank and I'm thinking I'll put them in the new big tank. I really don't like that little one anyways, but I'm not sure what else to add.
I thought about doing a cichlid tank, but I'm not sure I want to be restricted to only cichilds and I don't think I want to start off my new hobby with a bunch of fish that are going to spend their days trying to kill each other.

I did go out and get a bunch of decorations today, so that's good to go. I also bought a pump and airstone to speed the process along, but I'm not sure I'll need that at this point.

I'd like to, at some point, get things other then fish in here as well (snails, frogs?, etc) but I have no idea where to start.

I found the aqadvisor site, which is great if you know what you want, but I'm still a bit clueless. If it helps, since I always actually wanted to try my hand at saltwater (this is freshwater), I'd like to find some fish with color and a bit of size.

If it helps, it's a breeder tank so it has a decent sized footprint (36X18 IIRC).

 

[Joey P]

It's been 6 days since I started.
I brought the ammonia up to 4ppm and it's back down to 1 in about 12 hours.
Nitrite is off the charts. Nitrate is about 20ppm.

Am I correct in my understanding that, at this point, I can just keep adding ammonia back up to 4ppm every day until the Nitrites disappear. That is, I don't really have to do a water change until I'm ready to add fish and I need to bring the Nitrates down to a reasonable level. Correct?

As long as it doesn't stall, it seems like this will be a pretty quick process. After all the topics I see about people waiting weeks or a month to get things moving, I guess I just got lucky. I'm not sure how long it'll take for the Nitrates to drop, but I'm guessing I have less then a week left (maybe a few days).

 

[librarygirl]

Wow you're progressing nicely in such a short time. The nitrite phase is the longest though, it can last a few weeks, so don't get discouraged if it lasts longer than you're hoping for.

You shouldn't need to do a water change unless PH starts to drop significantly (below 7), or/and you notice ammonia conversion slowing or/and nitrites are very high (5+) for a week or more (prolonged high nitrites can stall the cycle).

As for fish, you have a lot of options. Moving the neons is a good idea as they are very active fish and would love more swim room; a large school of neons can look stunning too. Some other options for fish are harlequin rasbora, rummynose tetra, spotted blue eye rainbows, corys, a small pleco (bristlenose or clown), a single or pair of rams. You might want to check out some local fish stores, write down the names of fish that interest you and then research them and ask here. That'll give you a good list to work from. A 40 breeder is a great sized tank (I have one too) and you have too many options to just name off-hand.

 

[Joey P]

So far so good. The ammonia went from 4ppm to .25ppm in the last 24 hours and Nitrates are, while still off the charts, starting to come back on to the charts.
I'm still looking at fish though.

 

[Joey P]

The cycle is still coming along nicely. Nitrates are on their way up, Nitrites are still off the charts, but appear to be slowing coming back down and the tank can get rid of 4ppm of ammonia without breaking a sweat. I'm going to be gone Saturday/Sunday so I'm planning to bump it up to about 6 or 7ppm Saturday morning when I leave.

I keeping thinking about turning this into Saltwater, but every time I read about saltwater tanks, it seems like maybe I should have some experience under my belt before I try that. Besides, from what I've read about converting the tank, I've got about $175 worth of stuff that wouldn't be useable (gravel, filter, artificial decorations) and I'd still have to go out and get about $350 (skimmer, pumps/powerheads/live rock/salt etc) worth of new stuff. I suppose it can wait.

So, since I always wanted to do saltwater, I've been trying to find fish with some color in them. I thought about doing cichlids, but I'm not sure I want to only be able to have cichlids.
Looking at fish sites, the (FW) fish that catch my attention are things like:Black Veil Angel, Bettas, Loaches, Plecos. Maybe some snails or other non-fish animals.

Also, I have nothing live and no (real) driftwood in my tank right now. That seems to be an issue for some fish. For example, I keep reading that some plecos have to have driftwood to feed on.

I'm still totally open to ideas though.

 

[Rare]

I'm still totally open to ideas though.

Take you ideas and run with them....The tank is your canvas & what you add from fish, drift wood, etc. is your paint brush so run with it You can always buy another tank you know Good luck and looking good!

 

[Joey P]

Another thing, I've noticed that when I do a water test, the water is pretty cool. The thermometer reads a higher temp and I know (feeling the glass) the rest of the tank is plenty warm. I assume it's okay to have a temperature gradient like that, right?
There's plenty of circulation in the tank, it's just cooler near the top.

 

[Joey P]

So, everything is the same as it was the last time I posted. Ammonia goes from 4->0ppm in 24 hours but Nitrites haven't started dropping yet.
I assume I'm not stalled, just in the long part of the cycle. It's really only been two weeks since I started.

 

[Joey P]

Okay, so I just tested this morning. Ammonia and Nitrites at 0 and Nitrates also very low, possible at zero. That worried me a bit, but over the past few days I've probably swapped out about 10%-20% of the water so I'm hoping that's all it is.
I added ammonia back up to just under 4ppm and I'll check it again tonight when I get home from work to make sure I didn't misread the Nitrate test and see if it'll be ready to stock tomorrow (after a bigger water change). Also, pH was at 8.4.

I'm planning to look at fish tonight so I can get an idea of what's available and hopefully be able to get it somewhat stocked tomorrow. I think I'll also get a water changer if they have one at a reasonable price (compared to Amazon). Even the little water changes I did were a PITA and I'm surprised I haven't spilled anything yet.

 

[librarygirl]

That's great that nitrites have dropped. Usually it's a good idea to keep dosing for at least a few days just to be sure nitrites stay at 0. Let us know what you decide on for fish!

 

[Joey P]

Okay, so last night (the night after my previous post), I tested again and found ammonia and Nitrites almost at zero and Nitrates still very low.
Can anyone tell me why my Nitrates backed off? Is that just a result of doing a few small water changes? Nowhere near 50-60-70%, it was probably closer to 15%. I didn't think it would make that big of a dent in the Nitrate level.

As of right now, all three readings are at zero. I was hoping Nitrates would come back up overnight, but I guess not.

I'm putting a small amount of ammonia in it now and I'm planning to do a large water change tonight and hopefully be able to start putting some fish in tomorrow.
Now, if I don't get any fish tomorrow, can I just put a few drops of ammonia in it to keep the filter alive without having to change the water again? Or at least not a big water change?

Now another question I've been wondering about. When you do a PWC, you have to add dechlorinator to it. How long does that take to work and how long are the fish and bacteria okay with the chemicals in the water? If you put everything into the tank at once, I assume it takes some time to work, but I gather that's how everyone does it, right?

 

[librarygirl]

Usually nitrates only leave the aquarium through water changes, but that being said I've seen cycles where nitrates have inexplicably dropped. I wouldn't worry too much about it as long as ammonia and nitrite are going down to 0 after you dose.

Yep, if you don't get fish tomorrow you can just keep adding ammonia until you're ready to add fish. Before you add fish just make sure ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrates are as low as you can get them (<10 is good). If nitrate are higher than 10 I'd do a water change to get them down. If you have ammonia or nitrite still then I wouldn't add fish yet. Also don't forget to drop down the temp if you have the heat up for the cycle.

Also do a youtube search for "Drip acclimation." It's the best way to acclimate fish to a new tank.

Most dechlorinators should work instantly. I dose and then refill right after, never had an issue.

 

[Joey P]

I turned down the heaters yesterday. They were at the high side of safe, but I brought them back to the middle. In fact, I'm going to pick up a second thermometer to put on the other side of the tank to make sure it's all reading at about the same temp.

I put a small enough amount of ammonia in this morning that I'm thinking it'll be gone by tonight. Less then half of what I usually use and I'll do a water change tonight and hopefully be good to go by tomorrow afternoon.

I did go two fish (well, pet) stores yesterday and didn't see much that intrigued me. I'm hoping to make it out to the big place tomorrow. It's more expensive and farther away so I don't get out there that often.

As for what fish, I'm still trying to work out what I can get (locally), what I can put in the tank together, what will fit etc...
I still like the plecos, but it seems I'll need driftwood for them (and a bigger tank possible). I like the gourmis, angelfish and a few others. I thought I read somewhere that discuses are heard to take care of (and expensive?) so I thought I would leave them alone for now.
I wouldn't mind shrimp or snails as well.
What about frogs? Do frogs need dry land or can they live in a regular tank?

 

[librarygirl]

You could do a smaller type pleco, like a brislenose. Just don't get a Common. And yes most plecos need to munch on driftwood.

Discus do need specialized care and need groups; I think a 40 gal is too small.

If the frogs are aquatic (like African Dwarf frogs) they don't need dry land but they do shoot to the top for air. Also they're nearly blind and often need to be target fed.

What substrate do you have? If it's soft like sand or rounded (not sharp) gravel you could look into some corys; they are very fun bottom-dwelling fish. A couple of schools of something (rummynose tetra, harlequin rasbora, etc, there are many types that would fit nicely in a 40) would look good as well. A single or pair of rams would do nicely too. There are a lot of options, you just need to find something you like.

 

[Joey P]

The substrate is a gravel. Just the typical gravel you'd find in the bottom of all the tanks at the fish store.

I'll look into the African Dwarf Frogs and bristlenose plecos while I'm at the store. Looks like I may need to pick up some (real) driftwood and possibly get rid of the plastic one I already have. Of course, I could probably leave it in as it seems most of these fish 'need hiding spots' so having some extra stuff in there might not be a bad idea.

I'll just have to see what the store has and hope the people working there give me good information instead of just trying to make a quick sale.

 

[Joey P]

Regarding the drip system: What if I'm getting multiple fish? Can I dump them all in one bucket and drip acclimate that or do I have to do each bag separately?

 

[librarygirl]

You can do them all together.

 

[Joey P]

You can do them all together.

That's what I was hoping for. The fish will all be living together and I always assumed that the tank water at fish stores was all interconnected anyways so it should be okay to toss them all in one bucket.

 

[Joey P]

All my levels were at zero (including Nitrates) less then 12 hours after dosing with ammonia. I changed about half the water and I'll retest everything in a little while.
Then in the morning if everything is still zero, I'll go fish shopping.

I see a water changer in my future. Lugging 4 or 5 5gallon buckets to the bathtub* was a PITA. Even more so to lug twice as many 2 gallon buckets back to the tank. Then reaching in to put the gravel back where it belongs.

*Someone, somewhere on here mentioned dumping the water in the tub. I'm glad I saw that, I wasn't looking forward to trying to heave these buckets up to the kitchen sink and dump them without spilling anything.

Also, I picked up some Mopani that I have soaking in hot water.

 

[Joey P]

Just got back from the fish store...
I have:
1 Red Tail Shark
1 Bristlenose Pleco
1 Pearl Gourmi
1 Flame(?) Gourmi
5 Tiger Barbs(?)

Hopefully they'll all play nice together. We'll find out soon enough.