Fishless Cycle - Raw Shrimp Method - Possible stall?

[jeishii]

Hello amazing people.

I've been eating up the articles and some of the forum posts on here, working through my first attempt at a fishless cycle for a 10 gallon freshwater tank. I could not find pure ammonia with no surfactants so decided to try the raw shrimp method.

At this point I'm in about the 4th week of cycling. The ammonia cycle took a bit to start because the shrimp had to break down, but that portion seems to be done. I seem to be on the nitrIte-nitrAte portion at this point.

For about a week my tank seems to have stalled. I'm going to tell you the parameters and my plan to address this; I ask that you please tell me if I'm on the right path here!

For the last several days the numbers have been sitting here (API liquid test kit numbers):
Ammonia - 0.5 ppm
nitrItes - Well above 8ppm (note: I've read a few threads here and on other sites indicating that some people see the nitrIte test solution turn a dark translucent blue-green after the initial deep purple; that hasn't happened, it stays at a dark purple indicating 5ppm or higher.)
nitrAtes - 5ppm
PH - Currently around 7.4 after a partial water change (more on this below)
Temperature - Generally keeping it just under 80. My house is sadly a bit chilly since it's still early spring and the temp is dropping at night even with the heater on full blast, but it never gets below 74 degrees.

At this point I'm suspecting the ammonia being produced by the shrimp in the tank (contained in a mesh bag for easy removal) is fairly level since the ammonia itself is not moving, and the bacteria to convert nitrIte>nitrAte hasn't quite built up to the needed levels yet. I'm guessing the sky-high nitrItes are causing some issues.

I did a pwc last night (about 40% of the water), dechlorinated the replacement water, and re-filled the tank. NitrIte levels were not impacted. It was past my bedtime so I forgot to check nitrAtes again after the change.

Plans going forward:

• To start, tonight, I want to do another PWC, let the tank sit a while, and check the levels again to see if that brought the nitrites down.
• If I can successfully get the nitrItes down, keep watching the tank for movement in the ammonia and nitrAte levels.
• Tomorrow, hit up the local stores again and see if I can find some pure ammonia, and grab a small packet of fish flakes.
• If I can't find ammonia, I'm stumped on if I want to take this piece of shrimp out and get another one, or switch to fish flakes; I really don't wantto do the "large clumps of flakes" method though as I don'tw ant to clog up the tank with the decaying flakes. THis is one area where I could use some advice.
• If I CAN find the ammonia, begin following the dosing instructions I've seen on here; maybe dose to 2-3ppm and check again in 12 hours to see if the ammonia dropped back to the .5 or, preferably, 0 ppm (still haven't hit 0 since the first test).

Does this sound like a good plan at this point? I have been told by a coworker it would probably be okay to start adding fish if the ammonia is so low, but I refuse to add the fish with nitrItes being so high.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thank you all so much for your time!

Now, back to researching what fish to get...!

 

[shellieca]

Welcome to the forum & the fish addiction! Have you tested your tap water to see what levels you're staring with? I would do a water change as you plan to get the nitrites down a bit. Do you have an Ace Hardware where you live? That's where a lot of people get their ammonia. Personally I would get another shrimp to bring the ammo back up if you can't find ammo, remove the shrimp once the ammonia is up. Test every 24 hrs instead of 12. Have you taken the shrimp out at all? The nitrite phase is the longest, I've had them last 3 wks. I would not add fish until you can get those nitrites down & since you've gone this long what's a few more weeks? Did I miss anything?

 

[jeishii]

Welcome to the forum & the fish addiction! Have you tested your tap water to see what levels you're staring with? I would do a water change as you plan to get the nitrites down a bit. Do you have an Ace Hardware where you live? That's where a lot of people get their ammonia. Personally I would get another shrimp to bring the ammo back up if you can't find ammo, remove the shrimp once the ammonia is up. Test every 24 hrs instead of 12. Have you taken the shrimp out at all? The nitrite phase is the longest, I've had them last 3 wks. I would not add fish until you can get those nitrites down & since you've gone this long what's a few more weeks? Did I miss anything?

Hi Shellieca, thanks for the input.

I have yet to test my base water properties - I didn't even think of it! I'll do that next.

Ummm I think there MAY be an Ace Hardware, but it'd be 20-30 miles away so not a quick stop. I do have a ProBuild (Lumbermans) and a Toziers, so I'm going to check them out tomorrow.

The shrimp method I have been following stated you don't take the shrimp out at all, until the ammonia is being steadily converted to nitrItes and the cycle is over. I can definitely replace it though because it's getting pretty gross looking and I don't want to overly contaminate the tank. : .

I have been testing once ever 1 or 2 days at this point,and will start focusing on testing around the same time. It's been a little hard due to time constraints.

I think the nitrIte phase has so far been going for 2 weeks, so I'm sure the cycle is normal (since I knew it was going to take longer without a more measurable source of ammonia), but with the nitrItes so very high and the nitrAtes stalling, I was a little nervous. Hearing that it can still take 3 weeks even with pure ammonia makes me feel better though! I keep seeing people with "tips" to "speed up the cycle", but without having seed media (I didn't have an established tank to seed from), I was ready for this to take a while.

It's actually good because I haven't decided what fish to get yet! I'm still debating and researching what kinds would go well together and trying to decide if I am going to add shrimp or a snail, etc... so I'm not really ready for the tank to be cycled yet, I guess. haha. Sorry, I'm rambling now. Time for me to go to bed I think.

 

[shellieca]

Your cycle is going as it should but if the nitrites stay too high for too long it can stall. Bringing them down from 8 won't hurt IMO. I hadn't heard about leaving the shrimp in for the full cycle but I don't doubt some people do it. Usually you want to keep the ammonia 4-5 during a fish LESS cycle this allows more BB to build up than you'd get for a lesser amount of ammonia. Remember once you're ready for fish you want to add a few at a time so the BB isn't overwhelmed & has to adjust to the bio load. Once you decide on fish people on here can advise you about them. I have male Bettas & snails in my 10g tanks so I'm limited in my fish knowledge. as for testing be as consistent as you can. Keep us posted.

 

[librarygirl]

I agree, the high nitrites are probably stalling things. It may take a few full water changes to get them down, but try to get them to a readable level on the chart (<2). If you can proceed with pure ammonia it would be a lot easier.

 

[Fishperson]

I agree with library girl. My nitrites were so high that it was a turquoise color. I had to do a 50% wc twice to get them down to 4-5, and they then dissapeared in about a week. Do you have a lowes foods where you live? Believe it or not, they have pure ammonia (and "lemon" ammonia, don't by that) in their cleaning products aisle.

 

[jeishii]

Shellieca, Librarygirl and Fishperson:

Thank you al for your input!

I found out the Toziers is technically a mini Ace Hardware and found pure ammonia! Yay!

I'm going to test my tapwater's levels to see what my. Baseline is, then do another ater change and see if the nitrItes drop. I'm also going to remove the shrimp today after checking the ammonia again and try to dose it to 4-5 ppm, then check again around the same time tomorrow. Also goinf to buy some fish flakes so I can grind up a super tiny pinch and get some phosphates in there.

As for fish I was looking at breeds that won't get bigger than 1.5-2 inches, and considering calm schoolers like small tetra or platys. Has anyone here had success with a single male betta with any small school fish? I want to slowly build up the community of 3-5 schooling midline feeders (depending on size), with either smaller shrimp or catfish for the bottom feeding group (though I realize inverts like shrimp may get bullied or eaten..). Once I've established the community and find out if there are any fin nippers or bullies and the bioload isn't too much, I WANT to introduce a male crowntail or halfmoon betta.

I plan on having a 5 gallon or so set up cycling and hopefully ready in case he doesn't get along in the main tank. If he does, awesome!, and I will use the small tank for QT or let my hubby get a betta of his own so I can rope him into the hobby.

 

[jeishii]

Okay, it is looking like 4ppm of ammonia is getting consumed in 24 hours. Nitrites spiked back up and YAY so did nitrates! The first movement I have seen in a week!

At this point is it correct to keep dosing to 4ppm until ammonia AND nitrItes drop to 0 ppm?

Also - did some testing. I think my tap has some chloramines. The tank dropped to 0 ammonia after a water change (80%) and adding treated water... but always shows at least .25 ammonia after 24 hours.

I'll keep an eye on it, but what could cause ammonia to register around .25? I'm wondering if there are still chloramines even after treatment, or if it's actual ammonia.

My tap water, untreated and unfiltered, registers 1ppm "ammonia" with the liquid test kit.

 

[shellieca]

Glad it's moving along. As for seeing .25 ammonia, I know if I put the vial on the color card it looks tinged green to me but if I put it against something completely white like a paper towel it doesn't. The other thing you could do is test something you know has 0 ammonia & see what color it looks then you'll know if you're seeing .25 or not.