Fishless Cycling New 120gallon tank

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Ann7667

Aquarium Advice Activist
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
165
Location
Eugene, Oregon
I have two questions (1) re fishless cycling and (2) how many fish to add at a time to the new fishless cycled tank. So here are the details, and I would appreciate advice from anyone who has done this!

I have a new 120 gallon freshwater tank . I read Enigma7's article on doing fishless cycles and this is my Fish Bible on how to do it. But I need a little tweaking here to make sure I'm doing this correctly and that I do not stress my fish when I move them from their 75 gallon tank to the 120 gallon setup. I could not use any media from my present tank because I have that awful black hair algae in there which I do not want to move into my new aquarium!

April 27 - I started the fishless cycle process.
Filled the tank with water.
Waited a while to add the water conditioner giving the tap water chemicals time to kill any bugs that might be in the tank.
Cranked the heat up to 87 degrees.
Added ammonia to 4ppm
Put in a bottle of bacteria (which did nothing)
Tested the water daily with ammonia staying high; no nitrites or nitrates
May 7 - Put in a few raw prawns in a stocking (new)
May 10 - Added a sponge from my LFS heavily laden with bacteria! Great Stuff!
May 13 - Ammonia 5ppm; Nitrites .25; Nitrates 5.0
May 14 - Ammonia 5ppm; Nitrites .50; Nitrates 10
May 15 - Ammonia 4ppm; Nitrites 1.0; Nitrates 20
May 16 - Ammonia 2ppm; Nitrites 1.0; Nitrates 40
May 17 - Ammonia 0; Nitrites .50; Nitrates 80

After May 17 when there was no ammonia in the tank, I kept raising it up to 4ppm again (so the bacteria had something to eat) and continued taking readings, ammonia would disappear, but Nitrites and Nitrates were still present.

Finally . . .
May 25 - Ammonia 0; Nitrates 0; Nitrates 5.0
That was looking good! So, to be sure the tank was fully cycled, I put the ammonia in again to 5ppm to see if the tank could clear all ammonia and nitrites in 24 hours.
May 26 - Ammonia .25; Nitrites .10; Nitrates 5.0
ugh! I'll take another reading later today to see if I can get to zero ammonia and nitrites.

So, someone out there . . .. Am I on the right track? I understand from Enigma7's article that I need to (1) have a 24-hour period in which I get a reading of Ammonia 0 and Nitrites 0, (2) then I need to repeat that one more time to be sure that it is cycled, (3) then I reduce the temperature to 78 degrees (from 86 degrees) and do a big water change to reduce the nitrates. Then I can add my fish (or if I can't add them right, to feed the bacteria with 1ppm ammonia until I can).

These are the fish I have in my 75 gallon tank who are waiting to move into their new home:
1 Juru Pari (Angelina - about 7 inches long.)
1 Rio Tapajo Rednose (5 inches long)
1 Ancistrus - (4 inches)
6 Clown Loaches - (3 inches)
6 Rio Tapajo Rednoses (3 inches)
3 Cory Dora Julies

This is really too many inches of fish for the 75 gallon so to keep them comfortable, I'm doing two 10 gallon water changes a week.

My other question is: Once the big tank is fully cycled and move-in ready, can I add all my fish at once or a few at a time? The bacteria in the new tank is converting 5ppm ammonia into almost zero in 24 hours, but I do not know what that means in terms of fish ammonia and how much ammonia my fish will be pushing out.

Also, I thought I might buy a few new fish to let them try out the new tank before I add Angelina and the others. Any thoughts on that?

I would appreciate any feedback you all have!
Thanks so much!!! :)
 
In order to save myself some typing...I invite you to check out the guide and FAQ in my signature. I actually answer all the questions you have just asked. I'd also keep an eye on your pH at this point to ensure you haven't experienced a pH crash which will potentially revert your cycle and slow the ammo and no2 consumption.
 
Thank you!

:thanks:Thank you eco23! All of my questions were answered at your post as you said! So all I is really need, that I was running short of is - patience! :cool:'
I'll just pump the tank up to 4ppm ammonia again until it fully cycles. And I'll check the pH again, too!
Thanks again!
:)Ann7667
 
Ann7667 said:
:thanks:Thank you eco23! All of my questions were answered at your post as you said! So all I is really need, that I was running short of is - patience! :cool:'
I'll just pump the tank up to 4ppm ammonia again until it fully cycles. And I'll check the pH again, too!
Thanks again!
:)Ann7667

I'm glad it helped you out. Thanks for doing a fishless cycle. It seems like things are going great. Like I said, just keep a close eye on pH if it seems the ammo or no2 reduction slows at all.
 
eco23, I do have one more question for you.
Background - I believe my 120 gallon tank is cycled. This morning the Ammonia AND Nitrites were 0. pH was 7.0 (went from 4ppm ammonia to 0 in 24 hours). So to confirm it was cycled I put the ammonia in one more time this morning to 4ppm and will check it again tomorrow morning.
So, my preference is to move all my fish at once (after lowering the temperature and doing a big water change to remove most of the nitrates). They all get along really well. Sometimes there is some veeeeery minor poking and then I move the furniture around so that they "lose" their territory.
These are the fish I have:
1 Juru Pari (Angelina - about 7 inches long.)
1 Rio Tapajo Rednose (5 inches long)
1 Ancistrus - (4 inches)
6 Clown Loaches - (3 inches)
6 Rio Tapajo Rednoses (3 inches)
3 Cory Dora Julies

I'm just wondering if this fish load is too much at one time. I don't know if there is enough bacteria built up to convert the fish waste.

In the 120 gallon tank I need to add 4 cups of a brand called " Awesome PureAmmonia" which I purchase at the dollar store to get the 4ppm ammonia reading and the bacteria in the tank are converting it out and nitrites out in 24 hours. I called the manufacturer and they said the only ingredients in their product is ammonia and water but they could not tell me the ratio of ammonia to water.
Is my fish load going to be too much for the build up of bacteria? I'm not concerned about them getting along, because they already do.
Thank you
Ann
 
Ann7667 said:
eco23, I do have one more question for you.
Background - I believe my 120 gallon tank is cycled. This morning the Ammonia AND Nitrites were 0. pH was 7.0 (went from 4ppm ammonia to 0 in 24 hours). So to confirm it was cycled I put the ammonia in one more time this morning to 4ppm and will check it again tomorrow morning.
So, my preference is to move all my fish at once (after lowering the temperature and doing a big water change to remove most of the nitrates). They all get along really well. Sometimes there is some veeeeery minor poking and then I move the furniture around so that they "lose" their territory.
These are the fish I have:
1 Juru Pari (Angelina - about 7 inches long.)
1 Rio Tapajo Rednose (5 inches long)
1 Ancistrus - (4 inches)
6 Clown Loaches - (3 inches)
6 Rio Tapajo Rednoses (3 inches)
3 Cory Dora Julies

I'm just wondering if this fish load is too much at one time. I don't know if there is enough bacteria built up to convert the fish waste.

In the 120 gallon tank I need to add 4 cups of a brand called " Awesome PureAmmonia" which I purchase at the dollar store to get the 4ppm ammonia reading and the bacteria in the tank are converting it out and nitrites out in 24 hours. I called the manufacturer and they said the only ingredients in their product is ammonia and water but they could not tell me the ratio of ammonia to water.
Is my fish load going to be too much for the build up of bacteria? I'm not concerned about them getting along, because they already do.
Thank you
Ann

Some may disagree, but I think they're fine to throw over at once. If that thing can handle 4 cups (lol) of ammo in 24 hours...it's not even gonna blink an eye when you add fish. I'm not an expert on fish species, but as far as bio-filters go...I don't see an issue. Just watch out for aggression and keep an eye on ammo for a few days to make sure nothing crazy happens.
 
They'll probably be fine, that's what the fishless method is meant to do, build a biofilter that can handle a large load at once.

As stated above just keep testing and you should be fine.
 
Thank you JetaJockey and eco23!
And eco23, I KNOW, putting 4Cups ammonia LOL into the tank to get to 4ppm is so amazing! I tried at first to put in the "appropriate" amount of 3-5 drops/10 gallons, which for a 120 gallon tank is about 48 drops and when that didn't work I doubled it, and that amount didn't show up so I DOUBLED it AGAIN! until finally I just started throwing it in by the cup full and FINALLY after 4 or 5 CUPS my tank registered 4ppm! YIKES. I was like . . . OKAY, if that's what you WANT! So then I was buying 3 or 4 half gallons a day of ammonia. People were wondering what the heck I was doing with it. My husband who likes the fish, but is not a total fish person, would watch me putting a quart of ammonia a day in the tank and he would . . . wonder, but that's what my baby bacteria like to EAT! Oh well.
So I tested this morning and ammonia is zero and nitrite appeared to be gone; however I decided to break out my NEW Nitrite bottle and the new one tested .25 Nitrites - so I tossed the older bottle! Nitrates are .5; pH is 7.0; temp is 86 degrees.
So I guess now I still keep feeding in a quart a day (to get to 4ppm) until both Ammonia and Nitrite are at zero . . . right?
Thanks for all your help. :) Ann7667
 
Ann7667 said:
Thank you JetaJockey and eco23!
And eco23, I KNOW, putting 4Cups ammonia LOL into the tank to get to 4ppm is so amazing! I tried at first to put in the "appropriate" amount of 3-5 drops/10 gallons, which for a 120 gallon tank is about 48 drops and when that didn't work I doubled it, and that amount didn't show up so I DOUBLED it AGAIN! until finally I just started throwing it in by the cup full and FINALLY after 4 or 5 CUPS my tank registered 4ppm! YIKES. I was like . . . OKAY, if that's what you WANT! So then I was buying 3 or 4 half gallons a day of ammonia. People were wondering what the heck I was doing with it. My husband who likes the fish, but is not a total fish person, would watch me putting a quart of ammonia a day in the tank and he would . . . wonder, but that's what my baby bacteria like to EAT! Oh well.
So I tested this morning and ammonia is zero and nitrite appeared to be gone; however I decided to break out my NEW Nitrite bottle and the new one tested .25 Nitrites - so I tossed the older bottle! Nitrates are .5; pH is 7.0; temp is 86 degrees.
So I guess now I still keep feeding in a quart a day (to get to 4ppm) until both Ammonia and Nitrite are at zero . . . right?
Thanks for all your help. :) Ann7667

If I remember, you just dosed it up last night? I'd give it a full 24 hours, and it they've zeroed out by then, you're good to go. It's normal to be able to watch the conversion of ammo > no2 > no3 when you dose it up that high. Your bio-filter will be able to keep everything at 0 once you get fish because they are putting out a small steady stream of ammo, instead of a crazy person dumping in 4 cups at once, lol. I think you're good to go as soon as it hits zero tonight :)
 
Well . . . no . . . I did not dose it last night . . .

eco23, I dosed the tank yesterday 5/27 at 9am. So, now, 5/28 at noon the nitrites are .25 (which is 27 hours later) and the bacteria are getting very hungry. So should I dump another crazy LOL! quart of ammonia (4ppm) in there to keep them happy? They are completely out of food now. OR should I just try putting it up to 1ppm ammonia (just 1 cup) and see if they eat all of that with a result of ammonia AND nitrites at zero?
Please, what would you do, just one more time. :fish2:
:thanks:Ann7667
 
Ann7667 said:
eco23, I dosed the tank yesterday 5/27 at 9am. So, now, 5/28 at noon the nitrites are .25 (which is 27 hours later) and the bacteria are getting very hungry. So should I dump another crazy LOL! quart of ammonia (4ppm) in there to keep them happy? They are completely out of food now. OR should I just try putting it up to 1ppm ammonia (just 1 cup) and see if they eat all of that with a result of ammonia AND nitrites at zero?
Please, what would you do, just one more time. :fish2:
:thanks:Ann7667

When do you planning on adding the fish? If it's still gonna be a while, you can keep up the 4ppm, if you want to simply keep the bacteria fed until you stock...1ppm is good. Whatever you do, make sure you test the nitrAtes before you add fish and do whatever size pwc that's necessary to get it below 20. If you've got your heater cranked up, remember to turn that down too :)
 
eco23, I would like to add the fish now. They are waiting in their 75 gallon tank. But I need to get that magic reading of Ammonia 0 and Nitrites 0 before I add the fish. (Plus turn down the temperature, do a water change to lower the nitrates and make sure that all the water parameters are good.) My dilemma is the Ammonia is 0 and the Nitrites are not 0; they are at .25
I want to get the fish in the 120 gallon tank this week. By next Wed my plants will be in and I have a bog log with plants on it waiting to get in the 120 gallon tank. But no one can move in until the nitrites are at 0.
SO, if I just put the water to 1ppm ammonia to feed the bacteria & keep them alive, will the nitrites eventually move to zero or do I need to keep cranking it up to 4ppm ammonia?
Maybe I should also take out the rotting prawns I've been keeping in there (in a stocking). So I'll take those out, too.
So, boiling it all down . . .
Ammonia is 0
Nitrites are .25
Do I pick:
Door #1: keep 1ppm ammonia in tank to feed bacteria and hope nitrites go from .25 to zero. (That will take 1C ammonia)
OR
Door #2: have 4ppm ammonia in tank, check every 24 hours to see if ammonia and Nitrites are both at zero. (4 cups ammonia)
OR
Door #3: Is there a third door?

(I don't mind buying ammonia; it's cheap at the dollar store)
So I'm just going to feed the bacteria and put it at 1ppm for now. And then when I hear from you with your advice, I'll add more ammonia if you think I should.)
I do love cycling the tank this way. It's really wonderful.
Thank you for your help.
Ann7667
 
Ann7667 said:
eco23, I would like to add the fish now. They are waiting in their 75 gallon tank. But I need to get that magic reading of Ammonia 0 and Nitrites 0 before I add the fish. (Plus turn down the temperature, do a water change to lower the nitrates and make sure that all the water parameters are good.) My dilemma is the Ammonia is 0 and the Nitrites are not 0; they are at .25
I want to get the fish in the 120 gallon tank this week. By next Wed my plants will be in and I have a bog log with plants on it waiting to get in the 120 gallon tank. But no one can move in until the nitrites are at 0.
SO, if I just put the water to 1ppm ammonia to feed the bacteria & keep them alive, will the nitrites eventually move to zero or do I need to keep cranking it up to 4ppm ammonia?
Maybe I should also take out the rotting prawns I've been keeping in there (in a stocking). So I'll take those out, too.
So, boiling it all down . . .
Ammonia is 0
Nitrites are .25
Do I pick:
Door #1: keep 1ppm ammonia in tank to feed bacteria and hope nitrites go from .25 to zero. (That will take 1C ammonia)
OR
Door #2: have 4ppm ammonia in tank, check every 24 hours to see if ammonia and Nitrites are both at zero. (4 cups ammonia)
OR
Door #3: Is there a third door?

(I don't mind buying ammonia; it's cheap at the dollar store)
So I'm just going to feed the bacteria and put it at 1ppm for now. And then when I hear from you with your advice, I'll add more ammonia if you think I should.)
I do love cycling the tank this way. It's really wonderful.
Thank you for your help.
Ann7667

Door #1 is the way to go :). Just keep the little buggers fed. The no2 will drop...you're just watching the conversion into no3 since the dose was so high. I'd just feed it 1ppm every 24 hours until the night before you add fish, and go ahead and pull out the prawn now.
 
Thank you so much eco23. I removed the prawns last night. I will give it another 1 Cup dose tonight to 1ppm ammonia just for feeding and I'll wait for the Nitrites to drop. So far only the ammonia drops in 24 hours and the Nitrites do not drop. But I'll keep feeding and so the bacteria do not die and hope for the Nitrites to drop soon. I'm not going to take the plants out of the plant store until I can bring them home and put them in the tank. Right now I have the fish waiting in one tank, the bog log in a big container (not in with the fish because their tank has that awful black hair algea and I don't want it to grow on the new bog log and then transfer into the new big tank).
So I don't want to try to nurse along a bunch of plants. The shop will just have to hold them for me.
If the nitrite does not drop, should I just do a big water change to get rid of it? Or do I have to wait. I'm getting lower on patience.
Thank you again for your help. I won't bother you again until I just have good news the Nitrites go away!
:)
Ann
 
Ann7667 said:
Thank you so much eco23. I removed the prawns last night. I will give it another 1 Cup dose tonight to 1ppm ammonia just for feeding and I'll wait for the Nitrites to drop. So far only the ammonia drops in 24 hours and the Nitrites do not drop. But I'll keep feeding and so the bacteria do not die and hope for the Nitrites to drop soon. I'm not going to take the plants out of the plant store until I can bring them home and put them in the tank. Right now I have the fish waiting in one tank, the bog log in a big container (not in with the fish because their tank has that awful black hair algea and I don't want it to grow on the new bog log and then transfer into the new big tank).
So I don't want to try to nurse along a bunch of plants. The shop will just have to hold them for me.
If the nitrite does not drop, should I just do a big water change to get rid of it? Or do I have to wait. I'm getting lower on patience.
Thank you again for your help. I won't bother you again until I just have good news the Nitrites go away!
:)
Ann

I have a strange feeling you might have had a pH crash...can you test your pH for me?
 
Hello eco23,
5/30 8pm - Ammonia 0; Nitrites 1.0; pH 7.0
(after taking readings I added 1C ammonia to feed)
5/31 8AM - Ammonia 0; Nitrites .50; pH 7.2
(So the nitrites are declining and after the full 24 hours, maybe they will be gone completely this time).
So the pH has not crashed.
The ammonia is being eaten completely in 12 hours.
The nitrites are, at least, coming down now.
Keeping my fingers crossed for tonight that they will have disappeared!
If the nitrites have NOT disappeared by 8pm tonight, would you recommend that I do a pwc and if so what percentage?
Then I could redose again just to feed.

The 1C ammonia does not even put the ppm to 1ppm, but usualy just to .25+

Also, in a while I'll read through your Complete Guide again to see if I have missed anything.
Thank you
Ann7667
 
Ann7667 said:
Hello eco23,
5/30 8pm - Ammonia 0; Nitrites 1.0; pH 7.0
(after taking readings I added 1C ammonia to feed)
5/31 8AM - Ammonia 0; Nitrites .50; pH 7.2
(So the nitrites are declining and after the full 24 hours, maybe they will be gone completely this time).
So the pH has not crashed.
The ammonia is being eaten completely in 12 hours.
The nitrites are, at least, coming down now.
Keeping my fingers crossed for tonight that they will have disappeared!
If the nitrites have NOT disappeared by 8pm tonight, would you recommend that I do a pwc and if so what percentage?
Then I could redose again just to feed.

The 1C ammonia does not even put the ppm to 1ppm, but usualy just to .25+

Also, in a while I'll read through your Complete Guide again to see if I have missed anything.
Thank you
Ann7667

I must have misread. I thought the no2 was dropping in 24 hours, then the conversion began to slow. As long as it continues to drop everything is good. Should just be a day or two away from seeing both the ammo and nitrItes drop to 0 in 24 hours after dosing up. If they don't dropping all the way to zero, a 50% pwc is never a bad idea to refresh any nutrients and buffers the bacteria has used up. Same with the pH, if it drops one iota...pwc time :)
 
Thank you again!

Okay, so it sound like I'm on the right track. I will let you know what happens and I'll do water changes as necessary. I'm sure it will cycle soon now!
Take care!
Ann7667
 
My Tank is Cycled NOW!!!!!

Hello eco23!
MY TANK IS CYCLED NOW!!!!! I'm so excited now!!!!!
I've been dosing my tank at night.
Today is June 5.
June 3 at 11pm was my last feeding of 1C ammonia for the nitrites.
June 4 at 11pm Ammonia = 0; Nitrites were barely there. No food on 6/4.
June 5 at 8AM Ammonia = 0; Nitrites = 0; Perfect and Nitrates = 80+

This is the first time Nitrites have been at 0.

Question - What is my next step? (1) Do I feed maybe 1/2C ammonia today and then see if readings are still cycled in the morning? OR (2) can I do the massive water change now to lower the nitrates to an safe level, lower the temperature of the water from 86 to 78 degrees; make sure the water softness is right, put in my bog log and my fish. I'll get the water parameters as close as I can to their present tank.

Would love your feedback. I'm on my way to church in a little while and will be back in a few hours.

If I can't transfer the fish today, then I will have to wait until Tuesday because Monday I'll be gone all day.

Oh, one more thing. I have that awful black hair algae in my other tank and I do not want to move it into the new tank when I move my fish. So just in case it could spread by spores in the water, I thought I'd net my fish, give them a little dip in a bucket of the new tank water and THEN put them in the new tank. Do you think that would eliminate the possibility of moving the black hair algae in the new tank? Or is there anything else I can do.

:thanks:Thank you again, SO MUCH! You've been so helpful.
:)
Ann7667
 
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