I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!

[michaelg210]

you might need to rinse your filter media off if it has lots of fish food and gunk built up on it. just make sure to rinse it in the bucket of old tank water when you do a pwc, NOT tap water, it will kill your bacteria.

oops and uh, oh,

well, guess the filter bacs are gonners... still have the tank sides gravel, plant(s) and bridge, though, thanks, NOW i know.... shoulda thought of that...

 

[michaelg210]

After a week, I'd recommend NOT cleaning or changing anything. It's just gunk and probably a good sign. How are you cycling? Tank, fish?

Cycling in 5.5 Gallon tank, with 1 male betta......

 

[michaelg210]

is this true below?

Most corner filters are reasonably efficient filters, but corner filters require a lot of maintenance, and the regular maintenance of the filter requires the replacement of the filter media. If you have a corner filter, you should consider getting a second filter so that you do not remove all of your bacteria bed every time you clean the filter. Removal of the biological filter media (and its bacteria bed) will cause your tank to cycle again, which can be fatal to your fish.

 

[HN1]

Michael-

I'm not sure what a "corner filter" is. You may receive more responses and certainly better visibility if you post a new thread for your specific questions. This thread had a rather focused intent and I fear that is being slightly derailed.

 

[michaelg210]

Michael-

I'm not sure what a "corner filter" is. You may receive more responses and certainly better visibility if you post a new thread for your specific questions. This thread had a rather focused intent and I fear that is being slightly derailed.

My appologies, perhaps clarification will help.... forget the type of filter. As related to cycling and bio filter, this source stated that when I change the filter foam/sponge/ whatever you call the absorbant material that filters the water that the tank will cycle all over again... my question would be then how do i clean a dirty filter? Also it would seem there is still sufficient bio bac on the walls, gravel, etc. that this would not be an issue.

If you still wish for me to post as another thread, let me know.

thanks

 

[HN1]

My appologies, perhaps clarification will help.... forget the type of filter. As related to cycling and bio filter, this source stated that when I change the filter foam/sponge/ whatever you call the absorbant material that filters the water that the tank will cycle all over again... my question would be then how do i clean a dirty filter? Also it would seem there is still sufficient bio bac on the walls, gravel, etc. that this would not be an issue.

If you still wish for me to post as another thread, let me know.

thanks

No problem at all. I just want to try to keep relative. lol

The best way to clean your filter media is to swish it out in used tank water or dechlored water. The replacement of the filters as recommended by the manufacturers is simply a waste of money and will cause you to lose a lot of your cycle. That is also why a lot of people (myself included) advocate running 2 filters. Then one can be thoroughly cleaned while the other is already fully cycled and running. That helps a lot when setting up new tanks too!

 

[DragonFish71]

+1

For our HOBs, I reuse the filter packs until they are falling apart. I do it a bit differently though. I have the kind that have a plastic grid, then a blue floss type cover that has carbon in them. I cut a slit in them, refill with fresh carbon or ammo-carb mix, sew them shut with cotton thread and use again. Let's see, with one of our HOBs it's been running over 2 years now and I just bought replacements (which will be refilled and sewed until they fall apart)

The HOBs I use are Aquatech, kinda cheap, I get them at Walmart, but they do seem to work pretty good. They do have a 2 part filtration, a bio screen and the filter pack. The bio screen I rinse in some tank water and place back in the filter, and the filter pack gets changed once every 2 months.


These are the packs I use to give you an idea of why I can replace the media in them:
cargolargo - Product Info

Anything that is specifically for the bio-filtration: bio-balls, bio-ceramics, sponge from a sponge filter, oh heck even the plastic pot scrubbies need to be rinsed in old tank water or dechlor'ed water.

I hope my making this distinction helps you understand cleaning your filter a bit better.

 

[Mrgoodwrench520]

This info is just what I needed thanks so much for taking the time to share this.

 

[michaelg210]

Water changes, water changes, water changes, and more water changes.

50% twice a day! You'll be cycled in a couple weeks. An aquaclear hob will cycle fast that way too, and will be the best filter you can buy if your not already using something better.

update on all this:

Doing 3x daily huge water changes daily, (generally 60 - even 80 percent). Is this too much?

Ammonia is staying down between somewhere above 0 ppm to as high as .25 ppm). Average is probably at .15 - .20.

Still no sign of nitrItes. Have been keeping waste down pretty good with gravel vac.

am i doing something wrong, it has been about two weeks. Should I be using amquel or something? I am using prime, at the advice of this board, and read were prime basically neutralizes the toxicity of ammonia and does not alter the NH3/NH4 readings.

Should I cut back on the amount of water I am changing or keep doing what I am doing?

 

[HN1]

Sounds to me as if you are on the right track.

This is the tough part.... being patient and waiting for the cycle to complete.

 

[michaelg210]

TY, read something about changing too much water at once is perhaps just as stressful for the fish as is not cycling, (perhaps i just read too much).

Also when in a hurry, i do it with the fish in the tank, so not sure bout adding water and treating with prime at the same time is good, but usually this is when i change less than 50%. Should I mix it first? I try to keep some dirty water on hand to rinse in before i shove my hand back in the tank, (only 1 extra container).

 

[swankyspoon]

Wonderful post! It is very helpful for a process I am working through. Buying liquid test tomorrow.

 

[Mark Hewitt]

TY, read something about changing too much water at once is perhaps just as stressful for the fish as is not cycling, (perhaps i just read too much).

Changing a large amount of water in a tank where the fish is not used to water changes can be stressful , especially if the pH, nitrate and temperature are quite different.

However, this is insignificant when compared to how the fish will suffer from not changing the water during a cycle!

Also when in a hurry, i do it with the fish in the tank, so not sure bout adding water .

You should never remove fish from the tank during water changes anyway.

 

[limojica]

I made the mistake of adding too many fish (seven african cichlids) to my 29 gal once my ammonia decreased. I rushed off to the store and got fish. Big MISTAKE. Thankfully I purchased a book on how to care for an aquarium and realized I needed to do water changes to keep the levels down. I did pwc twice a day. The petstore tells you different and wants you to buy "bacteria" in a bottle. I followed the book and haven't lost any fish so far so good but I'd like to get past the nitrite stage I seem to be stuck! For now I'll continue to do the PWC and wait. I've just purchased a 55 gal for my crew but it too is in the nitrite stage (I have two fish in there). Cycling for almost two weeks now (added media, gravel, and old filter from old tank).

 

[limojica]

Great information. Thanks!

 

[XimeD]

All true, BUT... measured pH is not affected by NH3 level. NH3 toxicity increases with pH, but pH does not increase in proportion to NH3.

I'd love to hear from jsoong here even if I'm wrong. I learnededed all my chemistry from him!

Knowing your source water parameters are a very basic foundation of responsible fishkeeping IMO. If you don't know that, how can you pinpoint a new issue?

Sigh, I just wrote a very detailed explanation and my computer crashed. So here we go again........

So, I am new to this hobby, but I am a chemist so at least I can explain the pH thing.

There are 3 definitions of acid/base but the one we care about for tanks is simply:

Any source of H+ is an acid and decreases the pH
Any source of OH- is a base and increases the pH

NH3 is an indirect source of OH- so it is a base and will increase the pH of an aqueous solution. What happens is that NH3 pulls an H+ from water to form NH4+ and OH- and is known as NH4OH, ammonium hydroxide.

Things are a little bit more complicated than that though, NH3 has a pKa of 9.25 this means that at a pH of 9.25 half is in the form of NH3 and half in the form of NH4+. At pHs lower than 9.25 there is more NH4+ than NH3 and the reverse is true at pHs higher than 9.25. This is why NH3 toxicity increases with pH, more is in the form of NH3 and not NH4+ as the pH goes up.

Just to be clear, NH3 is considered a base and will raise the pH, and NH3 toxicity will increase with increasing pH and decrease with increasing temperature (a gas solubility issue)

Cheers,

-Ximena

 

[XimeD]

No HN1 your quite right, while the PH will affect the amount of NH3 the amount of NH3 won't affect the PH. i think i sideswiped myself and didn't actually answer the question which was "why is my PH rising over time".
(and i have exams next week....i really need to pay more attention!. i shall now go find out the information pertinent to the enquiry.)

Not true, dissolving NH3 in water will raise the pH. However, there are things called buffer which maintain the pH constant one of these is the carbonate/bicarbonate buffer so, if you are adding NH3 to your tank and the pH is not changing it is because there is a buffer present.

Try adding NH3 to de-ionized water and I guarantee you the pH will go up.

-Ximena

 

[Arnoniko]

You claim that " The bacteria that we need for a healthy “cycled” system live in the filter media, gravel, and décor, but don’t really exist in substantial amounts in the water itself. The bacteria that we need for a healthy “cycled” system live in the filter media, gravel, and décor, but don’t really exist in substantial amounts in the water itself."

What about the bio-wheel? How long does it usually take for it to have bacteria & how can one identify this?

 

[severum mama]

You claim that " The bacteria that we need for a healthy “cycled” system live in the filter media, gravel, and décor, but don’t really exist in substantial amounts in the water itself. The bacteria that we need for a healthy “cycled” system live in the filter media, gravel, and décor, but don’t really exist in substantial amounts in the water itself."

What about the bio-wheel? How long does it usually take for it to have bacteria & how can one identify this?

BioWheel=filter media.

You can identify when this happens once your tank has completed its cycle; i.e. ammonia and nitrite are consistently at 0 PPM, and nitrate is measurable.

 

[James_in_MN]

Could this thread be stuck to the top with the fishless cycling for dummies?