Low pH on Fishless Cycle?

[Coco1019]

Can someone please take a look at my fishless cycle results? How low does the pH need to go before I worry about it and add something to bring it up? That would be like crushed coral, right?

10/27
pH - not tested
Ammonia - 4ppm

10/28
pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 2ppm

10/29
pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 2ppm

10/30
pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 1ppm
Nitrite - .25
Added 2mL of ammonia

10/31
pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 4ppm
Nitrite - 2.0

11/1
pH - 6.4 - 6.6
Ammonia - 4ppm
Nitrite - 2.0 to 5.0 (dark pinkish purple)

TAP (straight out)
Ammonia - a little more than 0, but less than .25
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
pH - 7.4 (regular), 7.6 (high range)

TAP (after 24 hours - I saw someone mentioning testing this way in another thread and thought it may help)
Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
pH - 7.4

 

[jcolon]

The dip in the tank's pH is coming from bacteria (evidence by drop in Ammo and increase in nitrites) consuming dissolved nutrients that act as pH buffers. Without the buffers your pH can start to swing wildly, though usually you'll see a drop in pH. Continue with PWC's to replenish the buffers and keep the pH up ... otherwise you could get a crash in pH which'll stall your cycle.

 

[Coco1019]

Okay, how much should I change out and how often? Just whenever I see it low?

 

[jcolon]

That sounds like a start ... there's a fish-less cycle article that better details how often to do PWC's ..

The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling - Aquarium Advice

Hope this helps.

 

[Coco1019]

Perfect. Thank you!

I did a 50% change so we'll see how much that helps.

 

[tamtam]

As Jcolon mentioned it's just the buffers in your water being used up. Water change will fish that for you. You don't want to let it get too far below 7. once it gets to low 6s your bacteria aren't able to convert anymore and it stalls your cycle.

Your PH out of tap is 7.4. What is it after it gases out for a day? To do this you take some water and put it in a container. Give it a few stirs through the 24 hours and test it again. Your PH will change most often as it gases out to give you your true PH. So long as this number is in a good range than there is no need for crushed coral.

 

[Coco1019]

As Jcolon mentioned it's just the buffers in your water being used up. Water change will fish that for you. You don't want to let it get too far below 7. once it gets to low 6s your bacteria aren't able to convert anymore and it stalls your cycle.

Your PH out of tap is 7.4. What is it after it gases out for a day? To do this you take some water and put it in a container. Give it a few stirs through the 24 hours and test it again. Your PH will change most often as it gases out to give you your true PH. So long as this number is in a good range than there is no need for crushed coral.

True pH is also 7.4. That's food to know that I don't need the coral. I'll just keep up with the water changes.

 

[librarygirl]

+1 to what others have said. However if you find the PH dropping daily and you're doing daily water changes to keep the PH up then you may need the coral but let's see how things progress. I use some CC in my filter to keep my water buffered, it isn't a big deal but it stinks having to buy a huge bag when you only need a little bit.

 

[Coco1019]

Today (24 hours later):

pH - 6.6
Ammonia - .50
Nitrite - 5.0

Should I dose before the water change or after?

ETA: I guess that was a stupid question. It makes sense to change the water and then dose the ammonia.

 

[jcolon]

Dose ammonia? If so I'd say after since you want a 4.0ppm. Those numbers are telling me bacteria are getting established ... You got the one's that convert ammo to nitrites. Now you need the ones that convert nitrites to nitrates. Are you getting any nitrates at all yet?

 

[Coco1019]

I hadn't tested it because I thought it would be too early.

I just did though before the water change and it's between 80 and 160...more towards 160. I thought the cycle to Nitrates took a lot longer??

I'll check the ammonia and pH again in an hour.

 

[jcolon]

I just thought of something ... Have you tested your tap? It is possible to have some nitrates and ammonia in tap. I'd say test your tap as well and if it's zero on ammonia and nitrates then the numbers are from bacteria. 160 nitrates a rather high number.

 

[tamtam]

I hadn't tested it because I thought it would be too early.

I just did though before the water change and it's between 80 and 160...more towards 160. I thought the cycle to Nitrates took a lot longer??

I'll check the ammonia and pH again in an hour.

how far into seeing nitrites are you? I could have threads mixed up here but I think you mentioned you are about 2 weeks in? If this is the case it's common to see the rise in nitrates when you are still dealing with other spikes. Just like you saw nitrites when you still have ammonia. The bacteria do take longer to grow that convert nitrite to nitrate than the ones that convert ammo to nitrite, but you probably have some already established. Just not enough to handle the whole load so you are still seeing spikes while seeing nitrates.

Usually you have some high nitrates at the end of your cycle and need a few really big water changes to get those down.

How high are you dosing ammo to now? 2 or 4? At this stage in the game where your nitrites are so high on their own I'd probably only be dosing up to 2. How fast is your ammo converting? Say you dosed to 2 today how long will it take if you leave the tank til the ammo is 0?

 

[Coco1019]

I just thought of something ... Have you tested your tap? It is possible to have some nitrates and ammonia in tap. I'd say test your tap as well and if it's zero on ammonia and nitrates then the numbers are from bacteria. 160 nitrates a rather high number.

I did test my tap, the results are posted up top.

Edit: here they are

TAP (straight out)
Ammonia - a little more than 0, but less than .25
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
pH - 7.4 (regular), 7.6 (high range)

TAP (after 24 hours - I saw someone mentioning testing this way in another thread and thought it may help)
Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
pH - 7.4

 

[Coco1019]

how far into seeing nitrites are you? I could have threads mixed up here but I think you mentioned you are about 2 weeks in? If this is the case it's common to see the rise in nitrates when you are still dealing with other spikes. Just like you saw nitrites when you still have ammonia. The bacteria do take longer to grow that convert nitrite to nitrate than the ones that convert ammo to nitrite, but you probably have some already established. Just not enough to handle the whole load so you are still seeing spikes while seeing nitrates.

Usually you have some high nitrates at the end of your cycle and need a few really big water changes to get those down.

How high are you dosing ammo to now? 2 or 4? At this stage in the game where your nitrites are so high on their own I'd probably only be dosing up to 2. How fast is your ammo converting? Say you dosed to 2 today how long will it take if you leave the tank til the ammo is 0?

I started seeing nitrites 4 days ago which was 10/30. I started the whole process on 10/22. So it's been 12 days since I first dosed (off the charts, did a couple of changes that day to get it down) and dosed for the second time (to 6) on the 30th, 4 days ago, when it got to 1 ppm for the first time. I didn't dose high on purpose. I am still figuring out how much to dose in order to get it to 4. The guide said 2 tsp and I actually need way less.

 

[Coco1019]

New results (an hour after dosing to 4):


Dosed 1 1/2 ml of ammonia (.3 tsp)

2 hours later:
pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 4 ppm
Nitrite - 5.0
Nitrate - 80 to 160

It seems I finally know the right amount to add to dose to 4)

 

[jcolon]

New results (an hour after dosing to 4):


Dosed 1 1/2 ml of ammonia (.3 tsp)

2 hours later:
pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 4 ppm
Nitrite - 5.0
Nitrate - 80 to 160

It seems I finally know the right amount to add to dose to 4)

To me the nitrate number seems off ... Too high? I'm assuming your using the API test master kit ... If so are your shaking the nitrate test bottle before the drops? Either way, continue to dose Ammo and PWC's until the Ammo and nitrites are zero within 24hrs. I'd say your getting closer with the cycle.

 

[Coco1019]

To me the nitrate number seems off ... Too high? I'm assuming your using the API test master kit ... If so are your shaking the nitrate test bottle before the drops? Either way, continue to dose Ammo and PWC's until the Ammo and nitrites are zero within 24hrs. I'd say your getting closer with the cycle.

I know, it seems weird. I hadn't even tested until you asked because I really didn't think there would be any. I am beating the bottom and corners of the test bottles (yes, API) on the counter. I really don't think it's user error.

 

[jcolon]

Then just keep up on PWC's and dose until you see zero ammo and trites within 24hrs.

 

[Coco1019]

pH has tanked so I did a 60% change.

pH - 6.0
Ammonia - 2.0 ppm
Nitrite - 5.0+
Nitrate - 5

Plus, I found out that yesterday's Nitrates were indeed due to operator error. I had the bottles backwards.