New and needing some help!

[crqwdaddy]

This is the first time I have ever used a forum, so bear with me. I am having an ammonia problem, mainly because I have no experience with aquariums and I didn't cycle the tank properly. Now, I am scrambling to fix what has already been done. I have a 55 gallon tank with a marine land penguin 350 filter, a aqueon 1250 circulation pump and a 6 in air-stone. I set the tank up about a week and a half ago. I filled it up with tap water and let it run for about 2 days to evaporate the chlorine. Then, I added a bottle of quick start bacteria (Tetra SafeStart) and waited for 24 hours. I added 5 small and hardy fish after that, and after about a day and a half I did something stupid and added more fish (due to my ignorance). I have about 24 fish total, and all of them are 2 inches in length (or less). Now, I am dealing with a ammonia problem and praying that my fish don't die in the process. My tank is plenty big for the fish that I have stocked, but I didn't give the Nitrosamonas & Nitrobacter bacteria enough time to colonize. I have stopped feeding and started water changes ~ 25%. I had the water checked today at the pet shop and my pH was good, but I am reading ~ 3.0 ppm (mg/L) ammonia. Before adding the new water to the tank, I treated with API Stress Coat + (5mL/10gal) and waited about 4 hours. Rechecked the ammonia level and saw some improvement but very little. Then, I added some Nite-Out II for more nitrifying bacteria (about 5 mL/10 gal). I am planning to repeat the water changes. Does anyone have any other suggestions? It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Hi and welcome.
Really the best thing you can do is keep up regular, large water changes to keep the ammonia (and nitrite when it rises) down as low as possible. Try to aim for .25ppm or less of ammonia or nitrite. It may take more then one (or even two) large water changes in a row to bring it down. Large water changes won't hinder the cycle but will help keep your fish safe.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...-to-Starting-a-Freshwater-Aquarium/Page1.html

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html

 

[crqwdaddy]

Well...Its been about 10 days and the ammonia level has dropped significantly, and the nitrite (NO2) is at .25ppm. In return, the nitrate has risen to ~ 40 ppm and that is my immediate concern for the moment. I have done some homework on the subject, and to my understanding, I have reduced my oxygen by shutting off the circulation pump and I have added some more aquatic plants. I stopped doing water changes for a couple of days (when the ammonia level dropped) and started doing them again yesterday (due to nitrate levels). I am getting some mixed signals on the nitrate issue. A local aquaria specialist told me the nitrates do not affect freshwater fish (only marine fish) and there wasn't anything to worry about. On line, I am hearing that nitrates are harmful in high concentrations. Oxygen saturated environments inhibit nitrobacter growth and plants absorb the NO3. So, I have reduce O2 input by reducing the surface agitation from my circulation pump. In addition, I have added some more aquatic plants. I will keep doing the research, but if anyone has any suggestions then I am all ears. Thanks.

 

[librarygirl]

Hm, I've read the opposite on oxygen and bacteria: Nitrifying Bacteria Facts

As for nitrate, yes they are less harmful than ammonia or nitrite but in higher conentrations they can be toxic to fish. It's best to keep them <40; <20 is optimum. They are only removed through water changes. Live plants can help some but you'd need a LOT of live plants to affect the nitrate levels. Does your tap water have nitrate?

 

[crqwdaddy]

Maybe I misunderstood. I only reduced the O2 by cutting off my surface agitation from my circulation pump. I took a reading late last night and the nitrate lowered from 40 ppm to ~ 10-20 ppm (I can't tell the difference b/w the two in the API test kit). Would you suggest me turning the circulation pump back on?

 

[librarygirl]

Depends, as long as there's surface agitation of the water from the filter or air stone then it's probably fine. If you notice the fish gasping at the surface they may need more air.

What kind of fish and how many do you have? 40 nitrate seems high, so either there's nitrate in your tap water or/and the tank is overstocked. Are you vacuuming the substrate too? Buildup of waste and fish food can contribute to toxins in the water.

If you're just starting to see nitrite, keep an eye on it. You may be entering the nitrite phase, where ammonia drops to 0 but nitrite rises. Nitrite is as toxic to fish as ammonia and the nitrites will spike quickly so just monitor it daily and keep on top of water changes. Use a good dechlorinator (Prime is suggested).

 

[crqwdaddy]

Well, right now I have about 8 freshwater darters, 2 cherry barbs, and a hogsucker. It's a 55 gallon and I wouldn't think it is over stocked. When I originally started up the tank, I stocked it prematurely. My ammonia level spiked and I started to do water changes. As my nitrites started to reduce the ammonia (which is now at 0 ppm), I noticed that the nitate level started to spike as well. I am reading that nitrate colonize at a slower rate than nitrites, so that would explain the lag time b/w the two. I plan to test the tap water here (which isn't very good anyway), and it am entertaining getting some filter media additive that is suppose to lower nitrates (in the event that the tap water nitrate concentration is high).

 

[crqwdaddy]

0 ppm nitrate content in tap water, so I guess I will keep doing 25% water changes until it goes down.

 

[librarygirl]

How large are the fish? Did you catch them yourself? Hogsuckers alone can get 18+" when they mature so depending on how large they are now the fish could be the source of your nitrate. That and I've read they need a lot of food, so uneated food that's left on the bottom to decompose can contribute to nitrate as well. Forgive me if I'm wrong though, I don't know much about wild caught fish.

Also have you rinsed out your filter media in old tank water lately? Sometimes food and fish waste can get caught in the media and contribute to nitrate.

Also you might want to invest in a second filter or a canister. THe penguin 350 is rated for a 70 gal tank and it's usually recommended to have twice the filtration for your size tank. Plus, given your stock, a larger filter or a second one would clean the water more and give bacteria more areas to grow on.

Even though it's a larger tank, the fact that they are wild caught fish might be the issue (e.g. they need a larger environment). I'd up the water changes to two 50% changes per week and see if that helps keep nitrates low. I wouldnt bother with a remover; no sense in adding chemicals to a tank that you don't need when water changes will do the same thing and benefit the fish more.

 

[crqwdaddy]

All of the fish with the exception of a few are local native fish that I caught myself, and their sizes range from 1" to 3" (that being the hogsucker and they do get fairly large). Originally, I wanted to set up a river tank with a riffle/pool sequence and stock it with some native FW fish. It has turned out pretty good despite the mess-ups, and the fact that I am not completely satisfied with the aquarium arrangement being true to the habitat.

As of today, I found a 30 gallon + a 5 gallon tank, both with hoods and filters (one of them being a marineland 350 pro canister filter) with other various stuff for $50.00 at a garage sale my parents neighbors were having. I have been keeping an eye out for the canister filter for a while, and that was the only reason I bought the other stuff (in came as a package deal). Unfortunately, I won't have the filter for a little while, because they are my parents neighbors and I live a few hours from there. I'm pretty excited about it.

I am going to keep the H20 changes going, and I have been washing the filters (gingerly by hand) in the old tank water as well. Thanks for your help though. Not wanting to get ahead of myself here, but I was thinking of using the little 5 gallon as a quarantine tank, and starting up the 30 gallon up for something. My son is fascinated with the fish from Nemo, and he has a birthday coming up soon. I am seeing the the salt water tank is much more demanding, and I am a little reluctant to tackle that as of yet.

 

[Gish]

Go big or go home

I'm a newbie myself with less than 30 days of aquarium experience. Kudos to crqwdaddy for diving into the hobby with a huge tank! You are the man!

I just started with a 10 gallon that was a gift from our housewarming party circa 2006. Finally my kids are of age to show some interest in the fishtank as well.

My general question to you and the experts are, do you really need all those chemicals to get the cycle right.

I'm following a low tech route thusfar and used a fish-in cycle with some platys. I had the bacterial bloom last wk and now the water is clear. i've only tested the water 3 times: twice at my favorite LFS (go Tom's Tropicals!) and once at the mmfs (mega-mart fish store). they told me my water was soft but 0 on the 3 nitrogenous compounds.

I now have 7 platys (2 boys, 5 girls), a silver mollie (a tattoed one)*, and a mollie fry which came with it (it wasn't born with a tattoo) I have some anubias, hygrophilia, amazon sword. 2 fake plants, a shark saying 'no fishing' and a artificial seashell with some fake plants on it. I want to add a betta if things flourish in the next 2 weeks. I realize I am probably overstocked and am already researching bigger tanks. at the same time I have to myself some time to ensure that my enthusiasm doesn't wane.

*I apologize for this one. My kids love it, it has tiny multicolored hearts on it. Believe me my wife and I agonized about buying this.

 

[crqwdaddy]

Thanks for the encouragement Gish. I began with some nitrifying bacteria (in liquid form) that was somewhat undersized for the tank I have, and added 5 hardy fish 24 hrs later. Then I got excited and added to many fish too quickly (+ 25 more fish less than a day after the first 5 were added), and my problems began from there. I have heard of some non-chemical ways to get the bacteria going in aquaculture systems, but I wouldn't suggest doing it in static aquariums. You can add organic soil with hummus to a aquaculture system, and when the all of the soil is filtered out through settling chambers and bio-filteration then the bacteria should be established. Through understanding my mistakes, and doing the necessary things to correct them, none of my fish have died. I did give some of them away to friends with the same interest as mine (which reduced my ammonia level).

I believe that patience and time is the more important variable to getting the cycle right. Under good conditions, nitrifying bacteria cells divide every 8 to 16 hours. It is a slow process (which usually takes 4-6 weeks), and I didn't wait for it to develop. If you are low on the bacteria and having problems, the first solution is the water changes and the second (I would suggest) solution can be adding the microbe-lift nite-out II (5ml/10 gal). It seems to be doing good for me.

I have had a lot of luck using local sales networks, like craigslist, to find good deals on aquaria equipment. If you are thinking that you are overstocked, and low on funds, I would look into getting more 10 gallon tanks. There are plenty of people looking to just give them away and a lot of them come with filtration and hoods. I bought my 55 gallon and the stand with everything I need (- some misc. stuff) for $160. Just yesterday, I found a 30 gallon and a 5 gallon (both with everything you would need) for $50 at a garage sale. The main thing that I was after was the canister filter (marineland 350 pro). I will probably just sell the rest and make my money back, if not some extra. You may even get lucky and find that person that has a large tank setup and is willing to sell it for nothing or give it away because they are getting tired of tripping over it in their garage. It can happen.

When I got started with this, I went to a place that make headstones looking for some cool rock to use in my substrate. They told me I could take as much scrap granite as I wanted at no charge. I eventually got some of the local fish stores interested in it as well, and one guy was giving me 87 cents/lb. With that said, my start up cost was nothing and it is a good thing because I am broke more often than not.

I am not sure you wanted to read all of that, but I hope some of it is helpful to you. Keep my posted on how it goes for ya, and good luck.

 

[Gish]

Yeah, you know what your mistake was. everything i've read said to add fish gradually over weeks. I found it really hard to be that patient, but I think it paid off for me so far. I still visit the fish stores nearly every day and have to fight the urge to buy some new fish or accessory. as you know, most aquarium gear is less than $30 a pop, and fish are often dirt cheap; the costs do add up quickly, though.

i'm sure you'll get your tank parameters corrected soon. they also say frequent 10-20% water changes are key.

i've been looking at craigslist a lot and will start picking up stuff from there. you're right, people often just want to get rid of stuff and aren't worried too much about profit. i just need to find the time to get out and explore. it looks like you got some great deals.

i like your idea for rocks. have you found any cheap driftwood?

i don't mind reading any long posts, the info is very valuable.

 

[crqwdaddy]

I am on the river all the time doing fish research, and I stumble across pieces of driftwood and river rock often. I have considered collecting driftwood, treating them to make it tank safe, and trying to sell them on ebay or trading out with local aquarium business for credit. Check out my link to see the setup I am currently working with.

The piece of driftwood is one that I found when the lake levels were low in the area. If that is something you are interested in, I can tell you how I treated it. It had no negative effect on my fish either.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I am on the river all the time doing fish research, and I stumble across pieces of driftwood and river rock often. I have considered collecting driftwood, treating them to make it tank safe, and trying to sell them on ebay or trading out with local aquarium business for credit. Check out my link to see the setup I am currently working with.

The piece of driftwood is one that I found when the lake levels were low in the area. If that is something you are interested in, I can tell you how I treated it. It had no negative effect on my fish either.

Nice tank!

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I'm a newbie myself with less than 30 days of aquarium experience. Kudos to crqwdaddy for diving into the hobby with a huge tank! You are the man!

I just started with a 10 gallon that was a gift from our housewarming party circa 2006. Finally my kids are of age to show some interest in the fishtank as well.

My general question to you and the experts are, do you really need all those chemicals to get the cycle right.

I'm following a low tech route thusfar and used a fish-in cycle with some platys. I had the bacterial bloom last wk and now the water is clear. i've only tested the water 3 times: twice at my favorite LFS (go Tom's Tropicals!) and once at the mmfs (mega-mart fish store). they told me my water was soft but 0 on the 3 nitrogenous compounds.

I now have 7 platys (2 boys, 5 girls), a silver mollie (a tattoed one)*, and a mollie fry which came with it (it wasn't born with a tattoo) I have some anubias, hygrophilia, amazon sword. 2 fake plants, a shark saying 'no fishing' and a artificial seashell with some fake plants on it. I want to add a betta if things flourish in the next 2 weeks. I realize I am probably overstocked and am already researching bigger tanks. at the same time I have to myself some time to ensure that my enthusiasm doesn't wane.

*I apologize for this one. My kids love it, it has tiny multicolored hearts on it. Believe me my wife and I agonized about buying this.

Welcome to AA!
You are right, you are grossly overstocked for a 10g. Mollies need a 29g tank minimum. IMO your looking at 4 plates per 10g.
As for stabilizing your tank and getting the cycle established you don't new to add a thing. The nitrifying bacteria are free all around us. All you need to add is clean water and dechlorinator. What you do need is your own test kit. With 8 fish in 10g of water the ammonia is going to rise to toxic levels FAST. Get yourself an API master test kit. They are the best around for the money. They are about $20 on amazon. Depending on your pH and temperature ammonia from .25 - 1ppm could be starting to poison and burn your fish. What you need I do is large (50%+) water changes daily you reduce the concentration of toxins in the tank and protect the fish. Water changes will not hinder the cycle but will protect your fish.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...-to-Starting-a-Freshwater-Aquarium/Page1.html
Some reading for you.

 

[Tetra1990]

I am on the river all the time doing fish research, and I stumble across pieces of driftwood and river rock often. I have considered collecting driftwood, treating them to make it tank safe, and trying to sell them on ebay or trading out with local aquarium business for credit. Check out my link to see the setup I am currently working with.

The piece of driftwood is one that I found when the lake levels were low in the area. If that is something you are interested in, I can tell you how I treated it. It had no negative effect on my fish either.

I love the sloped look in your tank. The driftwood isn't too bad either

 

[crqwdaddy]

I love the sloped look in your tank. The driftwood isn't too bad either

Thanks. That is my attempt to replicate a riffle/pool sequence river habitat. I wanted to give my fish (which are in their breeding colors and quite territorial for the moment) plenty of places to retreat from one another.

 

[Tetra1990]

Looking at your tank, I have an idea. I'm switching to sand soon, so I'm going to try a sloped look. I have a tree stump that would look cool on it's side half buried in sand. Think of a blown over tree look.

 

[crqwdaddy]

Looking at your tank, I have an idea. I'm switching to sand soon, so I'm going to try a sloped look. I have a tree stump that would look cool on it's side half buried in sand. Think of a blown over tree look.

Post some pics when your finished. Sounds like a cool idea. I might make the same switch, if I come up with some sand darters.