Overstocked ?

[selvan777]

Hi and thanks for the forum.

Planning just a 20 gallon has proven to be not a very easy thing to do. Any and all input from you will sure be very helpful, thanks.

How about this selection, the Cardinals are my main focus? I have to admit that this is scary, am I seriously not risking bio overload?

18 Cardinals (is it too much?)
08 Cory Pygmy (I think it's the minimum)
06 Endler males (no fry and happy to have friends)
01 Ghost Shrimp (unique and ok alone, I think)
03 Otos (if I have to give these guys up, I will, no algae problem)

I've included 3 pics to show my plant load. There's a bunch of Anacharis in the rear-left, 7 individual plants, Java Moss on the small rock and driftwood and Duckweed that's maintained to cover about 70% of the surface they multiply like crazy.

I'm using an AquaClear20 HOB system with all 3 filter bags and a fourth ammonia remover bag. At every water change I remove the solid particles, if any, in the bottom of the AC20 by using the old water in the bucket to fill and pour out. I also rinse each bag by dipping them into the old water in the bucket once.

I currently change 10 gallons of water every 5-7 days. Not sure about the percentage but it's more than 50% considering the plants, rock, driftwood, sunken ship, heater, fish and 30lbs of Flourite Black. I can't shorten the interval if I need to but would rather adjust the quantity of water or fish to fit that water schedule, please let me know.

 

[joy13]

You are a lot more heavily stocked than I would consider for a tank for myself. Overstocked I would have to say yes.

 

[selvan777]

My original list:
18 Cardinals (is it too much?)
08 Cory Pygmy (I think it's the minimum)
06 Endler males (no fry and happy to have friends)
01 Ghost Shrimp (unique and ok alone, I think)
03 Otos (if I have to give these guys up, I will, no algae problem)

I'll scratch the Otos. The Endlers, although not schooling, like the company of their kind, so I figured 6 would be nice. Should I shrink it? The Cory Pygmaeus seem real happy at 8, they are out scurring lots. So that leaves me with the Cardinals, how many should I remove from the list?

Thanks for the advice.

 

[joy13]

What I consider a well balanced stocked tank is some type of algae eater (your 3 ottos is excellent), bottom clean up crew the cories about 4 of those and about 5 of the cardinals. Ottos is a very small bioload considering the clean up they do, the cories fun for watching and the keep the bottom clean and then the cardinals for the beauty of it all. IMO but then again I understock my tanks except for the guppy tank. Ghost shrimp are such a small bioload they they don't consider in the mix when stocking.

 

[selvan777]

Thanks for the advice and all important information.

I'm very interested in hearing what others have to say, please help me make a decision on a successful community.

 

[joy13]

If you change your water as often as you do and put in water just a bit cooler than your tank water expect you cories to breed if they are in good condition.

 

[exodon king]

given your current set up, yes, you are "overstocked", but this is mainly due to the inadequate filtration. if you were to add a second ac20, your tank will run just fine.
also, remove the carbon and ammonia filters from the HOB, they are more harm than good.
all you will need in both filters is the media sponge and the bio-max pellets. you can also add filter floss for added water polishing if you want.

 

[selvan777]

Hi,

What if I dropped my Cardinals to 11? Would that be safe enough?

Hi Joy,

In your suggestion of 3 Otos, 4 Corys and 5 Cardinals, I'm sorry but I feel I will be very understocked. I'm only learning but I do believe the Corys and Cardinals need to be in larger groups. You later said my water ritual would promote breeding of the Corys, do you mean if I keep your suggested stock?

Hi Exodon,

Are you saying that if I add a 2nd AC20 I'd be fine with my suggested list of pets? What if I used a single AC50? I must say I've never heard of doing without the carbon and ammonia filters, let a lone them causing more harm. Please forgive me if sound weary.

 

[mfdrookie516]

carbon is only useful when removing something from the water like meds... the ammonia stuff, i can tell you first hand it is worthless and does alot more harm than good. it will help remove ammonia for a few days, then ends up building up more ammonia and nitrates and causing a big problem... btw i have no carbon or ammo chips in any of my tanks, havent had it since i first learned exactly what they do and dont do

 

[exodon king]

a single ac50 would work if you used 2 bags of bio max.

as just posted, activated carbon is only useful for removing chemicals from the tank. furthermore, activated carbon is only active for 4-7 days, after which it becomes a nitrate factory.
ammonia chips/pads are also harmful for the same reason, and more. the way bio-media works is, it colonizes bacteria which feeds on ammonia, and turns that ammonia into nitrates. if you have a chemical media removing ammonia from your tank, the bacteria colony will not grow large enough to support the bio-load of your tank. when the ammonia chips/pad wear off, it will continue to produce nitrates, and the fish will continue to produce ammonia which your bio-media can not keep up with.

to put it simply. a properly cycled filter using only mechanical and biological filtration will support your bio-load with no need for chemical medias.

the aquaclear filters come with a sponge (mechanical media), bio-max pellets (biological media. and one of the best on the market at that) and a bag of activated carbon (trash. lol). you only need the first two to set up the filter. you can either throw away the carbon, or keep it around in case you have to remove meds from your tank later on.
i personally do not use any chemical treatments in my tanks, so i just trash the carbon.

 

[joy13]

Cories are some of the easiest fish that lay eggs to get to spawn.

Like I said I do understock but that is because I know stress can cause all sorts of disease. I don't usually go by inches because some fish are dirtier than others like plecos or puffers. If you go by one inch per gallon considering cardinals average 1.5 inches i18 is about 27 inches so with just the cardinals you would be overstocked. Another filter will help with water quaility but not with the stress of being overstock.

 

[exodon king]

there in lies the problem. you contribute the 1"/gal rule to fact, when in reality it holds absolutely no truth. there are far too many factors to take into account. according to the 1"/gal "rule", you can keep a foot long cichlid in a 10 gal tank.

when dealing specifically with cardinals (or any other shoaling characin), the so called "stress" of being in a large group does not exist.

 

[joy13]

there in lies the problem. you contribute the 1"/gal rule to fact, when in reality it holds absolutely no truth. there are far too many factors to take into account. according to the 1"/gal "rule", you can keep a foot long cichlid in a 10 gal tank.

when dealing specifically with cardinals (or any other shoaling characin), the so called "stress" of being in a large group does not exist.

What is the bioload of a cardinal compared to the cory and otos?

 

[selvan777]

Wow, you all are awesome!

I'll get the AC50 and will not be using the carbon bag. I'll use a new sponge on the bottom, filter floss on top of that and 2 biological filters at the top (1 old one for 2 weeks), there should be enough space. Is that a good plan or am still risking restarting a cycle?

That said, will my original list of occupants do well provided I keep my plants happy and stick to my water change commitment?

This brings up another concern, what does the filter floss do to the water? I ask because I'm wondering if I should run the pre-treated new tap water through a filter floss (or the same filter floss) before filling the aquarium when changing the water.

 

[EscVelocity]

Filter floss *polishes* your water by removing fine particles. Helps keep it crystal clear, plus its more surface area for biological filtration. You could run both filters and keep the other to use on a quarantine tank. The extra flow will stimulate your schoolers to school and i think you can adjust the flow if it seems to be too much.

 

[selvan777]

Thanks, that was too easy, duh on me. I will just run both the AC20 and AC50 for a month(?) then keep the AC20 for a QT tank.

What change interval should I follow for the 3 types of filters, the mechnical, polisher & biological?

Thanks again.

 

[mfdrookie516]

you dont change the bio-media.. its one of those forever things

 

[selvan777]

Got it, thanks.

What about the mechanical and floss? I guess I'll just keep rinsing lightly with tank water until it looks like it needs to be replaced. I will only change one or the other, the mechanical or floss, never both at the same time.

 

[mfdrookie516]

good plan... i just re-use the floss until its literally falling apart.

 

[exodon king]

the mechanical filter (the spionge) does not need to be replaced, just rinsed off in tank water. i change the sponge in my AC filters only every 5 years.
the floss on the other hand, just change weekly during your WC/maintenance. a whole roll of poly fill will cost you $5-8 and will last you forever with the smaller ac filters, so dont worry about reusing it. it gets matted and clogged pretty easily because of all the extra junk it helps to take out, and if you try to reuse it you could run into some problems.