Tank wont cycle-its been 2 months! help

[jjustinia11]

I have a 14 gallon tank, with a hood. light on 12 hours, gravel and decorations from petco all cleaned with no soap.

I tried to fishless cycle for 6 weeks. generic ammonia with NO detergents or surfectent. I added ammonia to 4 PPM kept the tank heated at 86F. I have a fluval u2 filter running and tested every day and nothing. I was using test strips at the time. after 6 weeks I began see the ever so slightest nitrite that never went above a trace amount. There is no chlorine in my water but I use stress coat to condition all water.

Eventually, my daughter got tired of staring at an empty tank. after a 95% water change, I purchased a seeded, active foam filter from angels plus and got 5 fish (after seeing them referred to on this site). I also purchased an API ammonia test kit (with test tube). I am running the foam filter and the fluval U2 at the same time. a steady temp of 78f. Ph of 7.6. conditioned water. I have had ammonia of .5 rising to 1 PPM consistently. there were no signs of ammonia dropping for over a week. I was led to believe that active foam filter had all bacteria but no nitrIte and no nitrAtes at all and rising ammonia.

I called angels plus and was assured the filter was active. In an effort to not hurt fish I purchased another active, seeded foam filter from angels plus and added it to the tank. I am running two active seeded foam filters and a fluval u2 filter. I have 10 tiny fish now. Its been over 2 and a half weeks with the active foam filter in the tank and 6 weeks prior to that attempting a fishless cycle. I would have never added fish if I thought the active filters were not going to work, but based on all the comments and feedback on this site I thought they would. In spite of two active seeded foam filters I still have rising ammonia and no nitrItes and no nitrAtes.

Fish are doing fine for two weeks but again I am testing 2 times a day with API tester and changing water when it goes over 1.0 PPM I wait a day after getting a 1.0PPM of ammonia in hopes will begin dropping the next day. no such luck.

I need advice as I am having to do many tests and water changes to keep fish alive.

 

[fort384]

Unfortunately there is not much you can do here but exactly what you are doing. The tank will eventually cycle based on the info you provided.

I don't like any of the off the shelf products that promise faster cycling. It is just too much of a crap shoot to try and keep a live culture of bacteria alive during shipping/stocking etc etc.

 

[jjustinia11]

Thanks agree about the bacteria in a bottle stuff. The foam filter were taken from an active aquarium that was supposed to be cycled after being there for a claimed 6 weeks and was shipped in a bag with the dirt water and arrived in two days. There are a lot of member on this board who have tested and recommended angels plus active filters. but I am not seeing any benefit.

 

[jetajockey]

Even with seeded media there isn't a guarantee of an instant cycle. The more fish in the tank, the more difficult it is to keep the parameters in check. 10 fish, even small ones, in a 14g is a lot of pressure on the biofilter to perform. You are definitely having an uncommonly slow cycling process.

Have you tested your water for ammonia straight out of the tap?

What kind of fish are in there?

What's your feeding schedule like?

 

[jjustinia11]

Yes, I have tested the tap, no ammonia or chlorine in the tap ( still condition with Aquarium Pharmaceuticals 85C Stress Coat+ Fish and Tap Water Conditioner)
the fish are small guppies, zebra danois, swordtail, neon tetra, glo fish. All around an inch. I have one gold snail in as well. If you ask they guy from angels plus the filter should have no problem with these small fish. I now how 2 and a u2 (which is over sized for the tank). I also have a 12 inch air stone in the back for oxygen. plastic plants from petco and a little house.
I feed small amount in the morning and small amount before bed, tetra flakes. no more. Test constantly.

 

[Aquavic]

I'm sorry you're having a tough time cycling.
You can try to use this




It's supposed to have BB in it.
I'm testing this to see if it actually works, I put this in my tank last night and tested but nothing yet. I however have test trips which are crap at testing so I'm planning on getting the API soon. Who knows maybe it'll work for you.

 

[jjustinia11]

Thanks. I have been reluctant to use those products. Based on my research they have different colonies of bacteria then what naturally on their own in a cycle. My understanding is that bottled bacteria compete with the natural bacteria and win, so if you use the bottle you will need to keep using the bottled bacteria as the naturally occurring BB will never take route in the presence of the bottled bacteria. I also understand the bottled bacteria to be less stable and that is why you need to continue adding bacteria from the bottle. Has anyone else heard that?

I have bottle of hagens Cycle which I have never used for the reason stated above.

 

[jjustinia11]

The guy at angels plus suggested it may be a toxin from the decoration...

What are the thoughts to that. all the fish are fine and since everything bought at petco, one would think that many people would be having problems. His other theory is that all my test kits are wrong and that my tank is cycled and stop testing. I don't buy that, since when I test tap no ammonia, when I test tank there is ammonia, when I do a 50% water change ammonia drops 50% on test. Seems to be too responsive to be way off. it is also far from being expired....

thoughts?

 

[Aquavic]

Thanks. I have been reluctant to use those products. Based on my research they have different colonies of bacteria then what naturally on their own in a cycle. My understanding is that bottled bacteria compete with the natural bacteria and win, so if you use the bottle you will need to keep using the bottled bacteria as the naturally occurring BB will never take route in the presence of the bottled bacteria. I also understand the bottled bacteria to be less stable and that is why you need to continue adding bacteria from the bottle. Has anyone else heard that?

I have bottle of hagens Cycle which I have never used for the reason stated above.

I've actually never heard that but I'm very glad that you told me. Have you tried adding plants? That might help

 

[jjustinia11]

don't take my word for it, let some of the expert chime in. I read it on this board and others. Read the direction on your stuff. they typically have an ongoing schedule to adding the stuff that never ends, which implies what I stated above. There is a lot of controversy on this topic. you will get many opinions on this.

 

[jetajockey]

I completely agree with the assessment about most bacteria in a bottle products.

Adding plants is a good idea. Like I mentioned before, 10 fish in a 14g is a lot of bioload and the biofilter is going to have issues compensating until it gets well established. For that size tank I usually only recommend 2 or 3 fish at the most till things get settled down.

The problem is that there's a lot of waste being produced so you are constantly juggling water changes and testing to keep up with it, which makes the cycling process a real pain. Only solutions to this would be to move out several of the fish till the tank gets established, step up to a much larger tank, or continue with the PWCs as needed. I also suggest cutting back on feeding to every few days, less waste in less waste out.

I do suggest getting Prime or Amquel+ so that you can just do a daily pwc and not have to worry as much about ammonia toxicity.

 

[jlk]

I am just curious why you believe theres no chlorine/chloramine in your tap water. Do you have well water? If you have have city water, then its possible theres more chlorine/chloramine than a product such as stress coat can handle & its killing off your good bacteria. If you are using strips to test chlorine levels, dont expect an accurate result. Knowing your parameters for tap water (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) will also help as well.

 

[jjustinia11]

I am using tetra 6-1 strips for chlorine, nitrates and nitrites. Water has zero of all of these. never said anything about chloramine. API for amonia test. zero in tap. I use a double of the stress coat + as the bottle recommends for added protection and slime coat.

 

[Borderlesscott]

Seachem Stability, have used it in all my 4 tanks - worked every time, does not out compete the bacteria you want - never had one harmful spike, Seachem prime and stability, api master kit, water changes is all you need, never lost a fish and during one set up I had German Blue Rams in the tank. Tested every day and changed water as required, I did use Stability longer than it states on the bottle, roughly 2-3 weeks. In my newest tank I used Prodibio as recommended by some of the Marine guys who have been using it longer, freshwater range has not been out as long, and again I found this very good, but preference would still be stability.

 

[librarygirl]

What shape tank is it (column, hex, bowfront, etc)? Do you have dimensions? That sounds like a lot of fish for a 14 gal; fish size isn't the only thing to take into account although it's a start: activity level and bioload, etc all play roles as well and some of those are schooling fish and need a group of 6 minimum. Even with the two active filters I just think the bioload is too much for the filters to handle right now; more bacteria will grow eventually but it takes time. You seem to be doing everything else correctly and I don't see anything problematic that sticks out. Personally I'd return most of the fish if you can; keep the guppies maybe and return the rest (which may not be suitable for the tank anyway) which will lower the bioload, let the tank establish and be less water changes and stress for you and the fish. Once the tank stabilizes then maybe do some research on compatible fish and re-stock slowly.

 

[jjustinia11]

Shape is a 14gallon high rectangle. I think the same rectangle opening as a 10 gallon at the top.

I hear you about the bio load. It is a concern of mine but Its funny because when speaking to the guy at angels plus he said with the little amount of fish I have, there probably is NOT ENOUGH fish to generate enough ammonia for the cycle to register. He said with my size tank and many more fish, he does not even use any filter and he has been doing this for years. He feels the filter should handle that load no problem. Of course, I can see why someone selling a product might say that to a customer. Funny how there are such disparate points of view.

The fish are in there now. The pet store wont take them back and I cant get a bigger tank. so they can only go one place, down the toilet, which I am trying to avoid. looks like its going to happen despite my efforts. Honestly, the ammonia does not climb that fast, maybe two days to go from .5 PPM to 1PPM. I am hoping that is because the bio load is either not that much and that maybe there are some BB off-setting the ammonia production.

Further more given that in a fish less cycle people dose ammonia past 3ppm, one would think that a bio load that only gets to 1ppm after 2 days is relatively small for the bio filter once it get established? The problem is just getting it established with minimal loss of fish. Thoughts?

I am going to get a bottle of seachem prime.

 

[shellieca]

Shape is a 14gallon high rectangle. I think the same rectangle opening as a 10 gallon at the top.

I hear you about the bio load. It is a concern of mine but Its funny because when speaking to the guy at angels plus he said with the little amount of fish I have, there probably is NOT ENOUGH fish to generate enough ammonia for the cycle to register. He said with my size tank and many more fish, he does not even use any filter and he has been doing this for years. He feels the filter should handle that load no problem. Of course, I can see why someone selling a product might say that to a customer. Funny how there are such disparate points of view.

The fish are in there now. The pet store wont take them back and I cant get a bigger tank. so they can only go one place, down the toilet, which I am trying to avoid. looks like its going to happen despite my efforts. Honestly, the ammonia does not climb that fast, maybe two days to go from .5 PPM to 1PPM. I am hoping that is because the bio load is either not that much and that maybe there are some BB off-setting the ammonia production.

Further more given that in a fish less cycle people dose ammonia past 3ppm, one would think that a bio load that only gets to 1ppm after 2 days is relatively small for the bio filter once it get established? The problem is just getting it established with minimal loss of fish. Thoughts?

I am going to get a bottle of seachem prime.

I have 2 tanks I'm fish in cycling, a 10g & a 46g, I make sure my ammonia does NOT go above .5 because I have fish. The 10g has 1 Betta & 1 Mystery snail & just completed its 5th week. The 46g has 3 Bettas, 2 CAE's & 2 Mystery snails & just completed week 4. I have never done a fish less cycle so I can't speak to that. I have not lost any fish because I test my water daily & average a 50% water change at least every other day, sometimes more often. Fish in may take longer, IMO, because you DON'T want the ammonia to get high nor any of the other parameters. I used Stability per instructions on both tanks & it didn't seem to do squat. Not every tank is the same but on average it takes 4-6 weeks.

 

[jjustinia11]

Do you have any nitrItes or nitrAtes yet?

 

[jjustinia11]

I got an API masters kit. no nitrites or nitrates in my tank. I also tested tap and there are no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates in the tap. My pH is 7.6 in the tank and in the tap. the temp is a rock steady 78. I did a large water change with seachem prime this morning and this brought the ammonia down from 1PPM to .25 PPM. After a day of feeding the ammonia is up to an estimated .4PPM based on a color in between the .25 and .5 color chart.fish perked right up after the water change and seachem. fed them twice today, I will manage with water changes. I can not find a chlorine tester by I am using one of the best conditioners now, so not sure if it matters. the strips say there is none in TAP or tank.

I was wondering if dissolved metals could have killed the BB in the activated filters. this is the only unexplored variable I can identify at this point. thoughts? is this possible?

The other possibility is that I got ripped off by angels plus and the seeded product, which I bought two of, does not really provide quality BB.

Has anyone else used seeded filters from angels plus. what are everyone ones thought.

 

[lorihallfrisch]

as for your fish not creating enough to make amonia..I cycled a 38 gallon column tank with 2 little tetras. We didn't ever stall out and they moved the tank right along...so I am thinking that is not the problem. I have 5 goldfish in a 55 gallon I am trying to cycle. Started at the same time. It has been running high amonia and 0 - trace of nitrites. FOR WEEKS and weeks. I have had to do so many water chages my amonia went back down to 0..and it seems like I am starting all over again. too much waste and fish food I think, If I ever have to cycle one again..it will be with very few fish, if any