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Old 09-20-2011, 12:21 PM   #1441
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ok i let a glass of water sit out overnight and it was at 6.0 there was no change from the tap to letting it sit overnight

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Old 09-20-2011, 01:10 PM   #1442
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ok i let a glass of water sit out overnight and it was at 6.0 there was no change from the tap to letting it sit overnight
It seems 6.0 is the true value of the tap water, and we know it isn't strictly the cycle effecting it.

There's a couple sides to this...first, it's gonna make cycling difficult unless it's buffered. The crushed coral or aragonite sand in a mesh media bag in your filter will help tremendously to both raise the pH and keep it there to complete your cycle. Nitrification occurs so slowly at 6 and if it goes below that it would be a real challenge (if not impossibility) to efficiently colonize your bacteria at that level.

Here's where it gets complicated. Doing a fishless cycle basically simulates having a lot of fish in the tank...so it's really nothing different than will occur once the tank is stocked. In other words, the slow nitrification (ammonia turning into no2 then into no3) will occur as long as that is your pH level. Good new is that if the tank doesn't process ammonia quite as fast as it would in a higher pH...ammonia actually turns into a non-toxic form (ammonium) when water is acidic (up to a point)...so that is on your side as well.

I'm against altering water chemistry in almost all cases. It's usually a slippery slope and can cause more harm than good because people cause fluctuating levels when they do things like water changes. Since there's no fish in the tank, there's no negatives to raising and holding the pH to an ideal level at this point...where it gets complicated is when you have fish.

For example...say you use a substrate like aragonite once you have fish. It will buffer the water in your tank and raise the pH full time. For the sake of easy math...say it raises it to 8.0. The problem is if you did a 50% water change with your tap water which is 6.0, you'd have a sudden and major pH swing of a full point which can be devastating to your fish.

This is a bit of a complicated matter, and one you shouldn't strictly listen to me about. There's no reason to be discouraged at all...in fact there's tons of people who would absolutely KILL to have your water coming out of the tap. Fish like Discus and German Blue Rams absolutely adore soft, acidic water. The best rule of thumb is to choose fish which work well with your water...don't try to suit your water for your fish. Almost all fish can adapt to pH levels (there are exceptions, you wouldn't put African Cichlids in a pH of 6, and you wouldn't put Discus in a pH of 8 ), but it's not something worth being overly concerned about IMO. I'd alter the water now for the sake of getting your tank cycled, but do it in a way that won't cause lasting effects. That's why putting crushed coral in a bag which can later be removed is a good idea.

I'm not familiar much with goldfish, but from what I know they're very hardy, tough little fish which should be fine. The most important thing will be keeping the pH stable. Remember that when pH starts low, there's a potential for it to drop lower. So having a good, dedicated water change routine will be important so your constantly refreshing the buffers which hold the pH steady.

Another good thing...since a cycle can take a few weeks...you've got plenty of time to research the topic...but I wouldn't be overly worried...getting it cycled will be the most difficult part...but even that is an easy fix
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:23 PM   #1443
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I have a question....

I am on day four of my cycle. Ends out, for various reasons I don't like the (internal) filter I bought and have decided to upgrade to a bigger (external) one.

I have ordered and am waiting for the new one. I probably should receive it this week.

Both filters are the same brand, and the bio-media is the same for both -- there is just more of it used for the external filter. So obviously, I am going to transfer all the media from the current filter into the new one before adding some new additional bio-media.

So here is my question : while I am waiting for the new filter, could I just stick some of the additional bio-media (which I already have) that will be added to the new filter directly into the tank? I can't add it to the current filter because there is no room -- but could it just go right in the tank? I am thinking that this could make up for any lost time that I might have because of my filter switch.

For info, I am dealing with API bacti-stars as a bio media.

What do you think of my idea?
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:32 PM   #1444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kindafishy
I am on day four of my cycle. Ends out, for various reasons I don't like the (internal) filter I bought and have decided to upgrade to a bigger (external) one.

I have ordered and am waiting for the new one. I probably should receive it this week.

Both filters are the same brand, and the bio-media is the same for both -- there is just more of it used for the external filter. So obviously, I am going to transfer all the media from the current filter into the new one before adding some new additional bio-media.

So here is my question : while I am waiting for the new filter, could I just stick some of the additional bio-media (which I already have) that will be added to the new filter directly into the tank? I can't add it to the current filter because there is no room -- but could it just go right in the tank? I am thinking that this could make up for any lost time that I might have because of my filter switch.

For info, I am dealing with API bacti-stars as a bio media.

What do you think of my idea?
I'm not sure sticking the bio-media into the tank will make much of a difference...but it won't hurt either. The main reason beneficial bacteria is found in the filter media is because it's the most highly oxygenated area in the tank. Most areas like the substrate only contain small portions IME. I've switched out every single spec of substrate and decorations and never had even a hint of a mini-cycle...but obviously if you replaced all the filter media you'd be asking for trouble. But hey...better than just sitting in a box

I wouldn't expect any negatives from switching out the actual filter as long as you bring over the media. Only thing you'll be losing is the minuscule amounts living on the actual filter housing.

*Just an afterthought...sticking it in a mesh bag and hanging it by your filter input so there's water flow moving through it may be efficient.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:37 PM   #1445
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Thanks very much!
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:38 PM   #1446
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Thanks very much!
In case I got it in late...I had an idea I posted above which came to me after I thought about it a bit
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:43 PM   #1447
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I went out today and bought some crushed coral..the picture you showed me only $13 for a 15lbs bag not bad...I put some in a panty hose and droped it in my water...i would put it in my filter but it doesnt fit...I have an aquaclear 20 which has the sponge and instead of the carbon stuff i bought a ammonia one and put the middle and the block pieces are at the top whatever their called.
I put about a nice handfull or 2 into the panyhose..should I be woried about it being too high now?
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:57 PM   #1448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christina717
I went out today and bought some crushed coral..the picture you showed me only $13 for a 15lbs bag not bad...I put some in a panty hose and droped it in my water...i would put it in my filter but it doesnt fit...I have an aquaclear 20 which has the sponge and instead of the carbon stuff i bought a ammonia one and put the middle and the block pieces are at the top whatever their called.
I put about a nice handfull or 2 into the panyhose..should I be woried about it being too high now?
No worries. If you can't get it into the filter (any you can fit in there is great), near the filter intake so it gets circulated is best. Don't worry about putting too much in...that's not possible at this point. It will only raise the pH to a certain point then stop.

If instead of carbon you bought something like Zeo-lite...take it out. That absorbs ammonia, is a direct competitor for the beneficial bacteria, produces a weaker bio-filter and is generally unnecessary. Sorry for the bad news
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:05 PM   #1449
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darn alright I took it out right away! so now all I have is the sponge and the things that sit at the top it think its biomax and at the top of that i put in some crushed coral.....my water is verycloudy now! will that affect anything?
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:10 PM   #1450
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darn alright I took it out right away! so now all I have is the sponge and the things that sit at the top it think its biomax and at the top of that i put in some crushed coral.....my water is verycloudy now! will that affect anything?
Cool...maybe you've got some space for the CC in the filter now?

The only things a healthy tank needs is mechanical filtration (to catch debris) and biological filtration (to harbor the beneficial bacteria). Things like carbon only need to be used for specific purposes like removing meds that are added to the water. Mostly it's a sales gimmick to make you keep buying a product.

No problem with the cloudiness. In fact, that's what we want in the water. Those are minerals dissolving into the water which will buffer your pH. It will clear up in a day or so. I'd let the water circulate for a while and check the pH again for changes.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:15 PM   #1451
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Alright and thnx again lol glad I got this all figured out now haha or later down the line i would of ran into some problems I want my goldy to live FOREVER haha
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:23 PM   #1452
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Alright and thnx again lol glad I got this all figured out now haha or later down the line i would of ran into some problems I want my goldy to live FOREVER haha
No problem . Just for future reference you can rinse the crushed coral like your life depended on it before adding it to help the cloudiness. It will still make things hazy for a while...but definitely not as bad.

Make sure you keep us posted on how it's going
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:26 PM   #1453
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ohh I will keep everybody posted...(Day 6) once my ammonia starts dropping Ill be running to my computer typing away.
And I wish I would of rised them off b4 i put them in..ohh well nothin to look at yet
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:18 PM   #1454
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Houston, we have nitrites?

Is this even possible on only DAY 4 ???????????

Wasn't expecting it, tested out of boredom. Looks like 0.5 or 1.0; hard to say because it is night and no more daylight here (colors are hard to read) so will test again tomorrow morning. Having an even harder time reading the ammonia color, but looks lighter than yesterday.

Nitrites? Already? Day 4? Possible?
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:24 PM   #1455
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Is this even possible on only DAY 4 ???????????

Wasn't expecting it, tested out of boredom. Looks like 0.5 or 1.0; hard to say because it is night and no more daylight here (colors are hard to read) so will test again tomorrow morning. Having an even harder time reading the ammonia color, but looks lighter than yesterday.

Nitrites? Already? Day 4? Possible?
Did you use any type of seeding material or cycling product? (sorry if you already mentioned that). Anything is possible, but I'd expect we'd definitely have to see a drop in the ammonia level before no2 shows up.
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:32 PM   #1456
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Did you use any type of seeding material or cycling product? (sorry if you already mentioned that). Anything is possible, but I'd expect we'd definitely have to see a drop in the ammonia level before no2 shows up.
No seeding material, just a squirt of JBL Filterstart in the filter.

I do think that the ammonia dropped, it is just hard to tell how much w/out daylight.
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:46 PM   #1457
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No seeding material, just a squirt of JBL Filterstart in the filter.

I do think that the ammonia dropped, it is just hard to tell how much w/out daylight.
Ugh. Bottled bacteria does weird things...and some brands cause real concerns for me...but it's not always the end of the world. It would take me about an hour to type out all my thoughts on cycling products...so instead I'll just include a link about a similar one. I've researched these products deeply, and there's only a couple I would let near my tank...that's not one of them. Again though, it's not a disaster, just something worth keeping an eye out for.

This thread isn't about the same product...but it's very similar and the same info applies. It's long...but let's just say it's an entertaining read...especially near the end
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ty-168704.html
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:57 PM   #1458
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Ugh. Bottled bacteria does weird things...and some brands cause real concerns for me...but it's not always the end of the world. It would take me about an hour to type out all my thoughts on cycling products...so instead I'll just include a link about a similar one. I've researched these products deeply, and there's only a couple I would let near my tank...that's not one of them. Again though, it's not a disaster, just something worth keeping an eye out for.

This thread isn't about the same product...but it's very similar and the same info applies. It's long...but let's just say it's an entertaining read...especially near the end
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ty-168704.html
Thanks for the link. And yeah, I had read a lot of negative stuff about bottled bacteria too. Then I got tempted by a glowing recommendation. And so I buckled (fish nerd peer pressure? ). Hopefully I won't regret it.
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:54 PM   #1459
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Honestly fish nerd peer pressure should be a symptom for some lfs people, I swear they'll say anything about a product to get you to buy it.
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:52 PM   #1460
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I just tested my PH and its still around 6.2 how long does it take to change after adding crushed coral?
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