The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling

[eco23]

Well I am following all the directions. My fish tank cycle will be a month old in 8 days. This is what my test are telling me. 0ppm of ammonia, 5ppm of No2, and 100 and something of no3. My fish tank is wiping out ammonia so fast. I dose it up to 4ppm every morning then test it in the afternoon. By afternoon the 4ppm diminished to 0. So I dose my tank with ammo twice. Morning and Night. As for my nitrites. They either stay at 5ppm or are off the chart. My Nitrates are completely off the chart usually. I keep on doing 50% water changes to keep an accurate account on them. So the question(s) are.

Am I almost finished?
If I'm not finished am I experiencing something IDK about?
Or do I need more patients? (trust me I have a lot of that)

Thanks

Welcome to the site.

The fact you're dosing ammonia up to 4ppm twice a day is most likely the problem. It results in a ton of nitrIte and nitrAte buildup (as you're seeing) and can really slow down the process.

What I'd suggest is to pick a time of day, and every 24 hours at that time do your testing and add ammonia...but not more than once per day.

Since it's building up so much no2 and no3...it may be worth doing a total water change to get your no2 as low as possible...preferably down to .5-1ppm. Doing a good, thorough gravel vacuuming can help reduce the nitrAtes as well.

I think once you do the massive pwc and reduce the ammonia input...it should finish up pretty quickly.

Good luck, keep us posted

 

[Ozydego]

Honestly, I would only dose ammonia once a day, 8 ppm in 24 hours is overkill, 4 is engineered to be more than a fully stocked tank can handle, that could be why the trites are always off the chart, too much ammo BB and still working on the trites BB. My cycle lasted about a month with the trites disappearing in the last 6 days of the month... Your ammo BB won't die only being fed once a day, in fact once the cycle is finished 1ppm a day is fine... We just want enough trites for their BB to flourish and that is accomplished with 4 ppm once a day... You are getting there though...

 

[Deckape]

Honestly, I would only dose ammonia once a day, 8 ppm in 24 hours is overkill, 4 is engineered to be more than a fully stocked tank can handle, that could be why the trites are always off the chart, too much ammo BB and still working on the trites BB. My cycle lasted about a month with the trites disappearing in the last 6 days of the month... Your ammo BB won't die only being fed once a day, in fact once the cycle is finished 1ppm a day is fine... We just want enough trites for their BB to flourish and that is accomplished with 4 ppm once a day... You are getting there though...

Very good and agreed, however please don't dose anymore AFTER, your cycle is complete AND adding fish. I am not insulting either of you. I am just adding that disclaimer in case someone is reading this and taking direction for face value.

Welcome to AA and I am glad you found us.

Wayne

 

[Deckape]

Welcome to the site.

The fact you're dosing ammonia up to 4ppm twice a day is most likely the problem. It results in a ton of nitrIte and nitrAte buildup (as you're seeing) and can really slow down the process.

What I'd suggest is to pick a time of day, and every 24 hours at that time do your testing and add ammonia...but not more than once per day.

Since it's building up so much no2 and no3...it may be worth doing a total water change to get your no2 as low as possible...preferably down to .5-1ppm. Doing a good, thorough gravel vacuuming can help reduce the nitrAtes as well.

I think once you do the massive pwc and reduce the ammonia input...it should finish up pretty quickly.

Good luck, keep us posted

Didn't see your post previously. Always good advice!

 

[Ozydego]

Absolutely.. Yeah, only dose if you are not getting fish for a little while, I dosed 1ppm for 4 days until the night before I got fish... Good clarification!

 

[micaiah12]

Thanks, Yeah I was wondering what the problem was. I'll try that. I already know about how to keep my bacteria alive after the cycle is complete. Although thanks for the help good work.

P.S. I know P.H. really doesn't matter unless you have a spike or a drop, but mine is stable at 8.2 is this bad or good? either for bacteria or fish.

 

[eco23]

Thanks, Yeah I was wondering what the problem was. I'll try that. I already know about how to keep my bacteria alive after the cycle is complete. Although thanks for the help good work.

P.S. I know P.H. really doesn't matter unless you have a spike or a drop, but mine is stable at 8.2 is this bad or good? either for bacteria or fish.

8.2 is perfectly fine for all but the most sensitive fish, and really won't have any measurable impact on your cycle (other than making crashes less likely ). The only thing I would do is give your fish a nice, slow acclimation when they are first introduced to the tank. I personally drip acclimate all of my fish.

 

[kindafishy]

Well I am following all the directions. My fish tank cycle will be a month old in 8 days. This is what my test are telling me. 0ppm of ammonia, 5ppm of No2, and 100 and something of no3. My fish tank is wiping out ammonia so fast. I dose it up to 4ppm every morning then test it in the afternoon. By afternoon the 4ppm diminished to 0. So I dose my tank with ammo twice. Morning and Night. As for my nitrites. They either stay at 5ppm or are off the chart. My Nitrates are completely off the chart usually. I keep on doing 50% water changes to keep an accurate account on them. So the question(s) are.

Am I almost finished?
If I'm not finished am I experiencing something IDK about?
Or do I need more patients? (trust me I have a lot of that)

Thanks

Hi, I am late to the game on this one and even though everyone answered you already on this, I thought I would chime in because this is EXACTLY what I was going through.

My readings were lingering at the same levels as yours, and I too was dosing (sometimes) more than once a day. Then a day or two ago, librarygirl set me straight on the once a day dosing thing and now, GUESS WHAT??? As soon as I let a full 24 hours go by without dosing more than once, I WAS CYCLED. Yes, as of this very morning, I have earned my cycling badge!!! woo hoo!!

Anyway, I just wanted to confirm (and with hard evidence!) that what everyone was saying in the previous few posts is spot on.

Here is how it went down : yesterday morning, I had dosed to 4ppm. By yesterday afternoon, my bacteria army had eaten all but <0.5 ppm. I forced myself to wait 24 hours to re-dose. And lo and behold, when I woke up this morning :

Ammo : 0
Nitrites : 0
Me :

 

[Clausura]

Thanks for the advice eco. I did a 90% WC and the nitrite level was 0.5 ppm. I teted the pH and it was a pale blue. Will monitor that part religiously now. I have not managed to find any crushed coral so I put in a bag of regular coral near the filter inlet. Is that ok?

Now just have to wait it out again and hope all goes fine...

 

[eco23]

Thanks for the advice eco. I did a 90% WC and the nitrite level was 0.5 ppm. I teted the pH and it was a pale blue. Will monitor that part religiously now. I have not managed to find any crushed coral so I put in a bag of regular coral near the filter inlet. Is that ok?

Now just have to wait it out again and hope all goes fine...

I'm not familiar with normal coral, but I would assume it functions in a similar way...just not as efficiently.

The longer I'm involved with this...the more I believe pH is absolutely the most underrated aspect of cycling. Having a stable pH in the ideal range is a key to having a fast and efficient cycle. I'm actually toying with the idea of experimenting with some different options of altering the water chemistry like pH buffering (occasionally altering) and a good mineral balance to speed up the process. It's something I'd never advise in a tank with fish...but since it's empty...if there's a way we can make the process much quicker...why not. I might have a new revision to the guide here in a couple weeks. I've just got to get my new fish out of the QT so I can use it to do a bit of research

 

[Clausura]

Haha I second your opinion on that. We tend to concentrate on the ammonia, nitrites and nitrate level that we dont bother about pH. But what I am experiencing now, when my cycle has slowed down twice so far, I believe due to the pH levels is proof that it is a major part of the cycling equation. I have to try and address the issue and bring it all home. I hope that it will not be an issue after cycling is complete. Maybe I should give this as a project to my students to do research on how to carry out a cycle as fast as possible nd the conditions that it will really go. Would be an interesting project =)

 

[eco23]

Haha I second your opinion on that. We tend to concentrate on the ammonia, nitrites and nitrate level that we dont bother about pH. But what I am experiencing now, when my cycle has slowed down twice so far, I believe due to the pH levels is proof that it is a major part of the cycling equation. I have to try and address the issue and bring it all home. I hope that it will not be an issue after cycling is complete. Maybe I should give this as a project to my students to do research on how to carry out a cycle as fast as possible nd the conditions that it will really go. Would be an interesting project =)

I've got a bunch of PDF's and articles I'd be happy to share which basically covers ideal conditions for colonization of nitrifying bacteria. The issue is putting it all together in a real world situation with products which are readily available to hobbyists (and also cost efficient).

I already updated the guide once putting even more of an emphasis on pH and alkalinity (which is actually why I wrote it in the first place)...but I think another touch up will be necessary soon.

Again, I'm totally against adding chemicals which alter water into an aquarium, they virtually always cause more harm than good...but with an empty aquarium, all it takes is a full water change and you're back to your natural water chemistry.

As soon as I've got 2 empty tanks, I'll probably do a side by side comparison and see what happens. First I've got to talk the wife into letting me do a science experiment in the living room, haha.

 

[eco23]

Hi, I am late to the game on this one and even though everyone answered you already on this, I thought I would chime in because this is EXACTLY what I was going through.

My readings were lingering at the same levels as yours, and I too was dosing (sometimes) more than once a day. Then a day or two ago, librarygirl set me straight on the once a day dosing thing and now, GUESS WHAT??? As soon as I let a full 24 hours go by without dosing more than once, I WAS CYCLED. Yes, as of this very morning, I have earned my cycling badge!!! woo hoo!!

Anyway, I just wanted to confirm (and with hard evidence!) that what everyone was saying in the previous few posts is spot on.

Here is how it went down : yesterday morning, I had dosed to 4ppm. By yesterday afternoon, my bacteria army had eaten all but <0.5 ppm. I forced myself to wait 24 hours to re-dose. And lo and behold, when I woke up this morning :

Ammo : 0
Nitrites : 0
Me :

Sorry...I glanced right over the last part . Congrats! Make sure you post some pics of your new fish

 

[kindafishy]

I'm not familiar with normal coral, but I would assume it functions in a similar way...just not as efficiently.

The longer I'm involved with this...the more I believe pH is absolutely the most underrated aspect of cycling. Having a stable pH in the ideal range is a key to having a fast and efficient cycle.

I think this is a really interesting hypothesis. My cycle took only 2 weeks, without any seeding -- and probably would have gone even quicker if I hadn't been over-doing it with the ammonia dosing.

At first, I thought it was the B.S. bottled bacteria that I used, but now I am thinking otherwise...

My water source is a spring-fed well from a region known for high quality water. I am working with a perfectly neutral 7.0 (and soft) source, and pH (as well as KH & GH) has stayed entirely consistent throughout the cycling. (BTW, the other day when I posted that my pH was rising & I was worried about it, I realized this morning that I was being a dummy and putting too many drops in the pH test...duh...so I was actually having no fluctuations in pH from the very beginning : none at all).

I am guessing that my super fast cycle has a lot to do with the stability of my water parameters, which probably have a lot to do with its pH neutrality.

If you ever do any experimenting, make sure you keep us posted.

I also think that it could be interesting to collect data from forum members on their base water parameters vs. length of cycle in order to do some potentially interesting statistical analysis (linear regressions and so forth). It might reveal some interesting and helpful things about the process. Sorry, that would be the stats / math geek in me talking...

Sorry...I glanced right over the last part . Congrats! Make sure you post some pics of your new fish

Thanks, I will. And a sincere thanks for your help and guidance.

 

[eco23]

Yeah, there's actually been a lot of advances in understanding and technology of the nitrogen cycle. There's even a way of adding a form of nitrIte to the tank just like you add pure ammonia. In theory this would cut cycling time in half since you're developing both types of bacteria simultaneously without having to wait for the Nitrosomonas to develop first...but it's a lot more complicated than that. Apparently the first kind of bacteria finds the form of nitrIte additive toxic...so you basically have to develop the bacteria backwards (colonizing the no2 to no3 guys first)...but then in order to colonize the first...you stave the second...so it basically leaves you at square one.

I think if the general public actually had the patience and understanding of doing a fishless cycle...some of these companies could develop a great all-in-one type of fishless cycling kit. Problem is...it would be one of the worst selling items in aquarium history, haha. Even though it seems like a lot of people do fishless cycles on the site...I'd be willing to bet the total population of fish keepers who cycle this way is like 1%. I actually looked in to the plausibility of putting together some product like this...it'd be a money pit.

I think a couple of these companies developing cycling products are on the right track (namely Dr. Tim's One and Only and Tetra SafeStart...basically none of the others), but there's a long way to go before these products are fully viable and effective. Even then I wouldn't throw blind faith into a product. What I do like is that Dr. Tim's will actually include a bottle of pure ammonia if you choose to fishless cycle with their product. To me, that shows they've got faith in their product because they expect you to be testing instead of just dumping in a bottle and expecting the best.

 

[Polar]

thanks for the help Eco. the guide helped alot

rummy nose tetras, neon tetras, ghost shrimp

 

[eco23]

thanks for the help Eco. the guide helped alot

rummy nose tetras, neon tetras, ghost shrimp

Thanks Polar. The tank looks really great. I hope you stick around the site a while.

 

[Clausura]

Hi guys, may I ask a question? I cant find any crushed coral but I have put in some coral pieces near the inlet of my filter because of my pH crash issues. After a day, the pH is about 8. I have read that the BB are most efficient at pH 7.8 - 8. However, I plan to keep neon tetras, zebra danios and otos that I believe prefer acidic water. Will the fish be able to adapt to such a pH or should I remove the coral after cycling is complete? Will the pH drop once the coral is removed and halt nitrification after the fishes are put in?

 

[eco23]

Hi guys, may I ask a question? I cant find any crushed coral but I have put in some coral pieces near the inlet of my filter because of my pH crash issues. After a day, the pH is about 8. I have read that the BB are most efficient at pH 7.8 - 8. However, I plan to keep neon tetras, zebra danios and otos that I believe prefer acidic water. Will the fish be able to adapt to such a pH or should I remove the coral after cycling is complete? Will the pH drop once the coral is removed and halt nitrification after the fishes are put in?

Remind me how far down and how quickly it was dropping? By keeping it in a mesh bag instead of the substrate you can just pull it out when the cycle is done, do a water change and it's like it was never in there. However, if you start seeing the pH taking a big nosedive...it may be a good idea to keep it slightly buffered. The key would be finding the right balance where the coral will buffer the water, but not dramatically alter pH.

For example, in my 46 I have 4-5 pinches of CC in a mesh bag, in my 20 I just have a couple pieces, and in my 5 gallon Chi I literally just have a few pieces. That way it keeps my pH exactly as it comes out of the faucet, but prevents it from dropping.

 

[Clausura]

Remind me how far down and how quickly it was dropping? By keeping it in a mesh bag instead of the substrate you can just pull it out when the cycle is done, do a water change and it's like it was never in there. However, if you start seeing the pH taking a big nosedive...it may be a good idea to keep it slightly buffered. The key would be finding the right balance where the coral will buffer the water, but not dramatically alter pH.

For example, in my 46 I have 4-5 pinches of CC in a mesh bag, in my 20 I just have a couple pieces, and in my 5 gallon Chi I literally just have a few pieces. That way it keeps my pH exactly as it comes out of the faucet, but prevents it from dropping.

Ok, on the first day I put in the coral, the pH was at 8. I usually do my testing at night at about 10pm. I thought that was too high so after a few days I took out the coral and left only 1/5 in the bag. The pH came down to 7.8, in one day to 7.4. Then the next day at 2pm the pH dropped to 7 and at 10pm to 6.8. So I was worried about the rate that it was dropping so I put back most of the coral in the mesh bag. Have yet to test the pH though.