dwarf gourami playing opossum?

[hbeth82]

Sorry, this is going to be very wordy but I don't know of any better way to explain it. I've written about this flame dwarf gourami quite a bit lately - around Thanksgiving he developed popeye, then he became very bloated / developed dropsy little over a week ago. Put him in a 10gal isolation tank & have been treating him with epsom salts & Maracyn 2, offering regular food and anti-biotic food, as well as a boiled pea. For filtration I have a sponge filter, which doesn't do much so I've been doing 30-50% water changes every day. Up until a few days ago, he'd been eating pretty well.

Yesterday after the water change and putting lid back in place, I noticed he was laying flat on his side, gasping. Waited a minute, horrified and trying to figure out what I did wrong, then brushed him lightly & he nearly shot out of the water. Realized that the new water was a bit colder and that the tank temp had dropped about 2-3 deg, so I figured tha this was due to shock from the temp change. This morning I decided to return him to his home tank since he's looking much better. Prepped the bag, scooped him up & tried to carefully roll him into the bag, then saw that he was bent stiff in a 'U' shape. Again horrified, nudged him a little and he gradually un-rolled but I decided isolation might be best for a while. Put him back in his tank & he seemed okay. Came back later and he was floating at roughly a 30-45 degree angle (assuming 90 is normal). Decided another 50% water change was in order, was maticulous in matching the temps and water only went up .5 degrees, put up the bucket and came back to see that he was on his side again.

Water temps have been about 77-78 & before the water change, ammonia = 0.25 (I know not good but not horrible), and 0 nitrite and nitrate. Haven't done a post-water change parameter check yet but I plan to do another water change tonight & will check it then. Also adding prime during each of these changes, as little as possible since I'm treating such a small tank.

So, any thoughts on what could be wrong with him? I'm really worried about him & I'm not sure what else to do for him. Should I consider euthanizing him?

 

[Blueiz]

It honestly sounds to me as though he is in his last days.

However, since you say he was looking better, so much so you were going to put him back to the main tank, I would leave him be so he can destress. I would also put some sort of seeding in his qt tank from the main tank so that it can instantly cycle.

As far as euthanization, that is a tough call to make, however a few things that can help you decide.

- Does the fish look like it is suffering (ex: loosing scales, sunk in stomach, severely bloated, cloudy eyes, laying on side at the bottom of the tank for extended amount of time, floating on side at the top of tank upside down or on its side for an extended amt of time)

- Does the fish show interest in food, or surroundings?

- How long the fish has been sick, is it improving or getting worse or staying the same?

- Have you tried all the treatment methods you can within reason to help the fish recover?

I'm not going to give you an opinion either way on euthanizing your fish. I think that through your observations and being there with the fish, only you can determine the answer to the above questions and make the decision. This could be a case of treating just a little longer will help the fish to fully recover, or treating just a little longer will simply prolong the inevitable.

Sorry to hear the problems that your having with your fish. Whatever decision you make, rest assured it's the right one, you obviously care for it and have tried everything that you know to do.

 

[mfdrookie516]

Should I consider euthanizing him?

i agree, its completely a judgement call. if you are working hard to try and solve the problem and feel like maybe youre making some progress towards it being healthy again, it is not unethical, imo, to keep doing so. If it gets to where it is an uphill battle, nothing is working, and youre just ready to give up because there is nothing else you can do, it may be a better option to euthanize. Good luck in whatever choice you make, it is a hard decision sometimes

 

[i3k]

I think you might be getting false ammonia readings since you are using prime as a conditioner. Prime is known to give false positive ammonia results if you are using Nessler type testing kit(most test kits are nessler type).

I would slow down on the water changes and do PWC every 2-3 days. I think the everyday PWC might be stressing your fish out even more than it already is. Just monitor your fish closely and see if it's doing better or worse every day without water changes.

 

[hbeth82]

Regarding the ammonia readings, I've never had that problem when testing established tanks (use the API test kit, not familiar with Nessler), in which I also use Prime. Could see that being the reason if Prime were added just before the test but there was a good 18+ hours between the two.

Certainly not in any hurry to euthanize him but the behavior has me more concerned now. Physically, I think he is looking better, at least the swelling around his pectoral fins has gone down and you probably wouldn't realize he had popeye unless told or looked closely. But he hasn't eaten or shown much interest in food for the last few days and seems rather listless. Plus his 'opossum' behavior doesn't seem the least bit healthy, the sitting on the bottom and then very gradually falling to his side.

Guess I'm torn between not wanting him to suffer if there's nothing I can do and not wanting to give up on him feeling better. Any ideas on how I could even treat him or just keep up with the same routine and see how he does?

Thanks

 

[dkpate]

If it were me, I would keep up the same routine, clean water, and see what happens. But that's JMO.

 

[i3k]

Regarding the ammonia readings, I've never had that problem when testing established tanks (use the API test kit, not familiar with Nessler), in which I also use Prime. Could see that being the reason if Prime were added just before the test but there was a good 18+ hours between the two.

Certainly not in any hurry to euthanize him but the behavior has me more concerned now. Physically, I think he is looking better, at least the swelling around his pectoral fins has gone down and you probably wouldn't realize he had popeye unless told or looked closely. But he hasn't eaten or shown much interest in food for the last few days and seems rather listless. Plus his 'opossum' behavior doesn't seem the least bit healthy, the sitting on the bottom and then very gradually falling to his side.

Guess I'm torn between not wanting him to suffer if there's nothing I can do and not wanting to give up on him feeling better. Any ideas on how I could even treat him or just keep up with the same routine and see how he does?

Thanks

it will test false positive within 24hrs of adding prime.

 

[Blueiz]

The reason for it testing positive when you use prime, or really any water conditioner to treat your water is because either the chlorine or chloramine (I cant remember which) is transformed into a non toxic to fish form of ammonia of which your bio filter will get rid of. Since the tank isn't cycled the bio filter isn't getting rid of this, however it is not harmful to your fish.

 

[dkpate]

Here, this site explains exactly what Prime does with the chloramines, ammonia etc.

Seachem. Prime

 

[hbeth82]

Not too worried about the effects of Prime right now but thanks for the info, will have to remember. Today Ozzy's staying at the surface, straight up and down (kinda the opposite of a head-stand), gasping for air. Even when the food fell right beside him, he more or less nudged it out of the way and kept gasping. Don't think he's going to be around much longer. Will keep up with the water changes and hope for the best. If anybody has any suggestions for other possible treatments, please let me know.

Thanks

 

[dkpate]

I wasn't posting it about the effects, I was posting it so you could see exactly what it does with ammonia, etc.

 

[hbeth82]

I wasn't posting it about the effects, I was posting it so you could see exactly what it does with ammonia, etc.

Sorry, I guess I didn't word my response well. Meant more that at the time I wasn't too worried about the level of ammonia, be it from the fish and decaying food or non-toxic side-effects of Prime, just the best way to treat the little guy.

Now that he's begun to constantly gasp for air at the surface and struggling to remain near the surface, I'm starting to wonder if it might be ammonia poisoning, in which case I'll probably move him back to my main tank with 0 ammonia.