Dying kuhli loach??

[corn_pea]

One of my kuhlis died the other day because I was treating my tank for ich (I added half doses) and now my remaining two are laying out in the open and breathing rapidly. Ive done two water changes to try to get rid of the salts and meds, but they’re still acting the same. One of them looks paler than usual and the other has red gills. I’ve been trying to find some more kuhlis to make a school, but they’ve been outta stock forever. Could anyone explain if theres any other reason for this?

 

[corn_pea]

Here is the other one and it has a red dot on its side and it’s laying down on its side

 

[Aiken Drum]

Could you give as much information as you are able from the "unhealthy fish" sticky.

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/before-posting-about-unhealthy-fish-read-this-32451.html

Could be a reaction to the meds and treatment. Could be a water quality issue.

 

[corn_pea]

1. Two kuhli loaches are swimming oddly (sideways), breathing very fast, laying out in the open, one has red gills and the other has a red spot on its side
2. pH 7.6-8, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all 0ppm. I know the pH is high but they have been adjusted to it for well over a year
3. 30 gal planted tank, its been over 2 months its been set up
4. I have one sponge filter 30gph and another sponge filter 80gph
5. All juvenile fish, all <2 inches. 4 platys, 5 corys, 2 rams. None of them ever bother/attack the loaches
6. I did a water change 3 days ago to remove some meds (about 7 gallons), and another one last night after I noticed the weird behavior (5 gallons) I vacuumed the sand about a week ago
7. I’ve had these fish since september, originally there were 3 but one died last week when I was treating the tank for ich
8. I haven’t added anything new to the tank before this behavior, but after I noticed the red mark I added anti fungal meds
9. I feed them a mix between tropical flakes, algae wafers, and freeze dried bloodworms

This could be reactions to stress from one dying or it could be from the salts, that’s all I can think of at least.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I very much doubt losing a fish would cause sufficient stress to manifest in the symptoms you are seeing.

Could very easily be a reaction to the ich treatment.

Im going to throw in potential water quality issues though. Essentially your water parameters are impossible. If you are cycled you would be seeing some nitrate. If you arent cycled you would be seeing some ammonia and/or nitrite depending on how far along you are cycling.

The only way you would see all zeros is if you did your water test immediately after a 100% water change and you are simply testing tap water, or if you have very low bioload in a very heavily planted tank. There is something amiss with your water testing.

 

[corn_pea]

I very much doubt losing a fish would cause sufficient stress to manifest in the symptoms you are seeing.

Could very easily be a reaction to the ich treatment.

Im going to throw in potential water quality issues though. Essentially your water parameters are impossible. If you are cycled you would be seeing some nitrate. If you arent cycled you would be seeing some ammonia and/or nitrite depending on how far along you are cycling.

The only way you would see all zeros is if you did your water test immediately after a 100% water change and you are simply testing tap water, or if you have very low bioload in a very heavily planted tank. There is something amiss with your water testing.

Oh you’re right I did the nitrate test wrong ?* I was going off of memory. Nitrate is 20ppm and ammonia and nitrite are still 0ppm. pH went up a little bit since I did the water change because my tap is very alkaline. Do you have any tips for lowering pH? I’ve tried almond leaves and pH down but it’s all temporary

 

[Aiken Drum]

Chemically altering pH almost always causes more issues than it solves. Its far more beneficial to have steady pH than it is to go adding stuff trying to get your pH to what you think is ideal. If you bought your fish locally, then it will have been bred and raised in similar water parameters to what is coming out of your tap.

So the first question should be, is the high pH coming straight out of the tap or is something in your tank raising it? Let a jug of tapwater stand out overnight and test it the following day. pH of 8 isnt that high and most fish will adapt to it quite comfortably, but it would be useful to know if thats the level straight out of your tap or not.

Your tapwater may not be as alkaline as you think if you have tested it straight from the tap without giving disolved gasses time to settle.

 

[corn_pea]

Chemically altering pH almost always causes more issues than it solves. Its far more beneficial to have steady pH than it is to go adding stuff trying to get your pH to what you think is ideal. If you bought your fish locally, then it will have been bred and raised in similar water parameters to what is coming out of your tap.

So the first question should be, is the high pH coming straight out of the tap or is something in your tank raising it? Let a jug of tapwater stand out overnight and test it the following day. pH of 8 isnt that high and most fish will adapt to it quite comfortably, but it would be useful to know if thats the level straight out of your tap or not.

Yes i’ve done numerous test on my tap and the average pH is 8.2. I stopped trying to chemically alter their old tank 6 months ago because I noticed it stressed them out. One is laying out in the open in broad daylight rn

 

[Aiken Drum]

Did you let the water stand overnight before testing? Your water may not be as alkaline as you think if you havent given it time for disolved gasses to settle.

 

[corn_pea]

Did you let the water stand overnight before testing? Your water may not be as alkaline as you think if you havent given it time for disolved gasses to settle.

Yes I’ve tested it right after adding de chlorinator, after sitting over night, and after sitting for 24 hours. I’ve also tried testing filtered tap water, results were the same. I usually filter my water before adding de chlorinator. I expected bad reactions to the salt and meds, but not this bad

 

[Aiken Drum]

Loaches are particularly prone to issues with medication.

As you say, indian almond leaves release tannins and are a solution to lowering pH. They should be replaced every 6 weeks or so. Driftwood similarly release tannins and will lower pH. Make sure you arent running carbon in the filter though or it will absorb all the tannins. Peat moss in the filter is another option.

Nuclear option is RO water. Either mixed with your tap water to lower pH or just use it and remineralise it to whatever water parameters you are after. Or have you considered collecting rainwater?

 

[corn_pea]

Loaches are particularly prone to issues with medication.

As you say, indian almond leaves release tannins and are a solution to lowering pH. They should be replaced every 6 weeks or so. Driftwood similarly release tannins and will lower pH. Make sure you arent running carbon in the filter though or it will absorb all the tannins. Peat moss in the filter is another option.

Nuclear option is RO water. Either mixed with your tap water to lower pH or just use it and remineralise it to whatever water parameters you are after. Or have you considered collecting rainwater?

Yes I’ve tried collecting some but it’s been very stormy so the bucket just gets full of debris and dirt. would I have to treat the rain water at all? I believe it’s supposed to rain tonight

 

[Aiken Drum]

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/how-long-to-establish-plants-376290.html

Post #17 shows this guys rainwater collector.

Post #48 has a link to the manufacturers website.

 

[corn_pea]

Down to my last one. Just discovered the one with inflamed gills passed away and now the other one is about to as well. I moved it into my 5 gal to try to revive it, but i doubt it’ll make it. RIP lil dudes