Goldfish gasping for breath!

[PLN]

We are brand new to this aquarium thing and have already learned a bit aboutwhat NOT to do. Right now though we have a problem that needs immediate attention.

Here's how the story goes..............we purchased our 100 gallon tank and all that goes with it from some friends that are moving about 3 weeks ago. They had it running just fine with some good size fish in it. Well, first mistake we evidently made was to thoroughly clean the tank, gravel, etc. But we got it set up and started with about 25 little goldfish. We did lose a few at first, but expected that. As they seemed to be doing well, we then added a couple of larger frilly goldfish (can not remember what they are called). They seemed to do great! This past Sunday, we added 5 larger goldfish that my dad had raised in his pond. Everyone was still ok, except 2 of dads didn't seem to want to come out of the corner too much. We gave them the slime stuff for stress and such.

Still ok. Our friend then commented that the bit of murkiness that was in the tank would probably clear up if we changed out the stuff in the filter. So we did. However, when we did, a hinge on the filter broke. My husband had to repair it and so while he was at it.........cleaned the filter out thoroughly. (we now know, something else you shouldn't do). Of course after that, to our surprise the tankclouded up big time!! Truly a milky bacteria bloom I think.

Well, we realize that during the cycling there is going to be clouding. The real problem now is that the fish are dying and we are not sure what steps to take to save them. They are listless, gasping for breath, hanging at the top of water, lying in the corner, & swimming in air bubbles. They do not look good. The smaller ones have been going 1-3 a day.

The water also appears to have film on the top....oily looking maybe? it makes the bubbles kind of linger on the top.

Soooooo......... :?

The girl at petsmart told me to take everyone out of the tank, empty it and start it over.
Another local aquarium place told me to leave it alone and maybe just add some "stability" by seachem, not to worry about their breathing.
Finally, another one told me the tank is running its course, and my breathing problem could be the ph. I did take my water in to petsmart and have it tested---it all read normal according to her.

I'm thinking of getting an airstone? Whatever, we need to do something quick.

Can YOU help?!

 

[PLN]

Now, I've also noticed that some of the smaller fish are now picking at one of the larger ones!

 

[Devilishturtles]

Wow, PLN.

First off, when you cleaned the tank, did you use any sort of chemical or anything like that?

Goldfish are extremely dirty fish, and you definitley overloaded the bioload of your tank too quick and too fast. When you had your water tested, did you test for ammonia?

Get your own test kit, or ask to see the readings. She might not have known what she was talking about. It sounds like you have some majorly high levels in your tank. I'm just taking a stab here, but some daily water changes might be in order for you for a while, until you can kill off some of that ammonia (if that is the case).

Good luck!

 

[PLN]

Goldfish gasping for air

Thank you! My husband just took in some more water and the results were that the amonia was high and the ph was low. They did a different test than what the girl did for me this a.m. (he noticed that it had started to stink too)

she gave him something to boost the ph, then said to put in another product to lower the amonia in 1 hour. After another hour she said to add these tablets to help clear up the water.

He's already added the ph treatment. Should we work on changing out some water? I've heard both now -- do & don't. I guess because we're working with a new tank.

Thank you so much for your help!

Pam

 

[PLN]

oops----yes, when he cleaned it, he did use bleach. but he rinsed everything out good. :?

 

[AtodaJ]

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. Hopefully I can help get you on the right track.

There are 3 reasons I think fish are dying off.

1 - Too heavy of a bioload. Way too many goldfish are in that tank. No matter what measures you tank you can't keep that many in there for a prolonged period of time. You should return 50% of the fish at least imho.

2 - I agree with Devilshturtles completely that the tank hasn't cycled and ammonia/nitrite levels are probably through the roof. I would rarely trust a petsmart employee concerning my tanks. Get a test kit and you personally test for ammonia and nitrite immediately. If levels are above 2 ppm for either then perform water change(s) to get them down immediately. Don't wast time.... just change the water. Be sure to match the temperature of the tank water before adding and treat the new water with a dechlorinator.

3 - Inadequate water filtration is being provided. What kind of filter are you running? Specifically, what is the Gallons Per Hour (GPH) of the filter? What is the water temperature? With a 100 gallon tank filled with goldfish you should be shooting for at least 1500 gph. That would require multiple substantial filters running at the same time. What is the water temperature? The higher the temperature the lower the oxygen content and the more important high water filtration becomes.

Good luck!

 

[AtodaJ]

she gave him something to boost the ph, then said to put in another product to lower the amonia in 1 hour. After another hour she said to add these tablets to help clear up the water.

Do not adjust your PH! I strongly advise to not put any more chemicals into that tank until checking here first... please... I beg of you.

Pet stores are in the business of selling products. It is very convenient to just point to another sellable product when a customer comes in asking for help from them. Please do not take the bait. Chemicals should only be used by experienced fish keepers.

What is the product called that "lowers ammonia"? If it is ammo-lock or the like that converts ammonia to a less toxic form then just be aware that the use of this product can make your ammonia tests inaccurate. I avoid them because of that. If it is Stress Zyme or Cycle then you should see a drop in the ammonia/nitrites but your water will get very cloudy. Either way... water changes really are needed.

PH Adjusters This product will adjust the PH (either up or down depending on what you got) temporarily. Then the PH will eventually settle back down to where it was originally because the water is buffered to resist changes. A low PH is not nearly as harmful as an unstable PH. When you use that product you are making the PH very unstable. The PH swings will kill fish and is very dangerous. Don't worry too much about what you've already added... just don't do it again. You will see the PH go back eventually especially when you perform water changes.

Water Clarifiers This product merely makes waste particles bond together and fall to the floor of the tank. The result is a clear looking tank but the waste is still there messing up the water. Water changes should be used to clear up water... you need to remove the waste... not hide it in the gravel.

Bleach Not good at all. Never use bleach to clean filter components. Be sure you added a dechlorinator with any new water added.

hth

Good luck!

 

[An t-iasg]

You have received excellent advice!

When you do a water change, just match the temp add dechlor, like AtodaJ suggested. Don't add any pH boosting product. How "low" was the pH? Do you have the reading? pH usually swings when this type of product is added, further stressing the fish. Also, ammonia is more toxic at higher pH values, so adding a "pH up" product now isn't good. The ammonia must come down, though, so just do water changes with no added product except the dechlorinator.

 

[aquahungerforce]

I would also increase your oxygenation of the tank big time. Get a powerhead and put it on the bottom of the tank and point it straight up. You could also lower the water level so your filter has more of a cascade.
The more agitation at the surface, the better. Just make sure there are areas of the tank that are calmer. Goldfish need alot of oxygen, and with all the problems with your tank this will help also with the toxicity and help your nitrifying bacteria get more oxygen via gas exchange. Also, I wouldn't mix small feeder comet or shubunkin type goldfish with fancy breeds of goldfish.
Fancy goldfish can't swim very well or fast, and are at a big disadvantage at feeding times. Those "smaller" goldfish will get larger than the fancy breeds. Up to about 12". Fancy breeds get from about 6-8".
Dont listen to the lfs about ph buffers. Goldfish do well at almost any ph between 6.5 and 8.0. As long as it is stable. 7.4 is ideal for goldfish, but not 100% necessary.
You can increase the ph if it was extremely low(below 6.0) , AND you have water with a low total alkalinity (50ppm or less)by adding a commercial buffer (not a pet store buffer), once a week to keep the ph near neutral and the TA at about 100ppm. However your tap water may or may not, and I would thoroughly test your water for :
TA - total alkalinity
KH - carbonate hardness
GH - general hardness
ph - of course
Nitrite, nitrate, ammonia

Most tank problems can be controlled with large water changes. I do a 50% change once a week for my goldfish. Also cut back your stock and your feedings while your cycling.

Goldfish are very messy, very large fish. One fish per 10 gallons is the rule with fancy goldfish. I hope you have a pond or a very large tank for those "little" guys in a few seasons.

HTH, Good luck!

 

[PLN]

Thank you to everyone who has responded. Here's what has transpired. We had already used the ph adjuster, and the ammonia adjuster, and the tablet for clearing it up by the time we read all your responses. But, we stopped at that.

We then did a 20% water change last night. it greatly helped the 'appearance' of the water. We also did NOT feed them again last night.

This evening we cleaned out the gravel and changed out about 25% of the water. Again, changing out the water is helping the appearance. We also purchased our own test kit today. The results we had about 1 hour ago after changing the water were: NO2 is 0.1, ph is 7.6, ammonia is 1.2. According to these, our water must be getting back in good shape?

Several of the fish are looking quite poorly though and my dad has encouraged a hospital tank for some of them. An update on our numbers too ---- we have only 9 or 10 of the small goldfish left (about 1-2"), 2 orundas (about 3"), and 6 of the other goldfish -- the largest one being about 6" and the others are smaller.

How long should we continue to do the water changes? Would some salt to help the fish recover be ok at this point?

 

[Lance M.]

You should probably give some one the goldfish back. That's a lot of goldfish. And adult goldfish needs at least 30 gallons of water....and you have 18 goldfish in there! They are very dirty and will give off a lot of ammonia. With my experience with fantails and black moors you should also be on the look out for finrot caused from bad water conditions. If you feed them properly they will grow very fast. I bought a fantail goldfish that was about 1.5 inches long and six months later it was about 7 and a half inches long. Also what is your water temperature? It should never go about 82 degrees. If you can keep down to around 70 or lower. Remeber they can survive the winter in ponds were the top two feet of water are frozen! Since it is a coldwater fish it will get different illnesses than tropical fish.

 

[Lance M.]

O and since they are coldwater fish they need a lot of oxygen in the water. The colder the water is the more oxygen it has in it.

 

[krap101]

you should do them until ammonia's under 0.5 and nitrates under 40 ppm. (forgot nitrites) i think you should try putting some of them back into the pond, keep some in there, and spread them out and gradually put them back into the tank. try and keep the temp around 68 and that'll get a lil more oxygen get into the water. anyway i think the goldfish might be happier in a pond but i dont know. since i have a 100 gallon pond.

 

[PLN]

thank you again to everyone for their help!!!! We have continued the water changes and last night all at once we noticed that the tank looks almost crystal clear!! The fish we have remaining are very active again! We did lose some more and did take 3 of the larger ones out. They went into a hospital tank. One of them died and the other two are hanging on. We have definitely seen black spot or I guess "tail rot"? on them. We have treated them, but those two still seem pretty rough.

The 2 larger ones in our big tank are the smaller of the big ones. They are doing much much better. We are still watching them though too for the tail rot and have removed the carbon from the filter -- we've treated the entire tank as everything we read talked how much the tail rot is so contagious. Amazing is that even without the carbon in the filter, the tank has gotten so clear!