HELP- Bloated Bichir

[Inky]

I recently adopted 2 orhpaned bichir's (last Monday). In the emergency situation we had to put them into an uncycled tank for a few days before we could transfer them into a cycled tank. (Had to do some moving around)
Upon bringing them into our home, I noticed that the Male Senegal's? belly was a little swollen. He is eating rosy reds and nibbled on some blood worms. Well it has gotten progressively worse and appears that he is going to Pop!! I have QT him in another tank and we are treating it with Maracyn-2 and aquarium salt.
From doing some research on the web I am fearful that it is "Dropsy"?
I also have found that Fruitbat seems to be the expert on these guys.
Does anyone know how I can contact him?
Over the past week I have grown very fond of these guys and there unusual nature!

If anyone could help I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks

 

[Kari]

I'm new to the aquarium hobby, but I've just recently lost 2 female bettas to dropsy. From what I was told, you should NOT use aquarium salt, I was told aquarium salt would make them retain MORE water, and bloat even more. I was also told to use epsom salt, that's the kind that will relieve bloating. Can you tell if his scales are sticking out? Also, do you have a qt tank that you could put him in? There are people on this forum who are much better at this than I am, so I'm sure someone else will jump in with some better advice soon. In the meantime, I'd try to get him in a qt tank, and see about using epsom salt instead of aquarium salt. Good luck!

 

[Inky]

We put him in the QT tank last night.....Still alive this morning...Cross my fingers!! The scales don't seem to be protruding (sticking out)?
I have read conflicting information about using salt? I am so confused on what to do. We only used the salt once when we transferred him to the QT tank.

I have also read that with this species that digestion is sometimes slow?

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Inky]

OK so I am new at this and didn't even realize what a sticky was. So here are the answers to the "sticky" I was supposed to read before posting.

1~What type of fish is afflicted? Senegal Bichir, bloated belly but still eating
2~What are your tank parameters - past 48 hrs housed in a QT tank
ammonia 0ppm
nitrites 0ppm
nitrates 40 ppm
temp 78-80
pH 8.2 (our tap water is in the high range)
3~ 12 gl set up for over a year
4~ Eclipse w/ carbon filter and bio wheel....gph ?
5~ 1 Senegal Bichir 7-8 inches and 1 Ram Snail
6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? last night How often do you do this? Once a month
How much water do you remove at a time? 33%
7~How long have you had the fish? A week
If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them? Well we took them in on an emergency situation and had to put them into an uncycled tank for a few days until we could move other fish around and make the proper arrangements for them. His belly was slightly swollen when he came home with us but has progressively gotten worse.
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.? no
9A~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently? Not sure what their diets where before but I have feed him rosy reds and he has nibbled at some blood worms.

I have read alot of posts that recommend frozen peas to help pass the waste....but this species is carnivorous and I doubt he will eat peas?

Any help anyone????? It is killing me to see him this way

 

[Kari]

To try to get him to eat the peas, do NOT feed him for a day, then try the shelled peas. My bettas are pretty carnivorous, and they seem to love the peas

 

[FMJnaX]

The peas will help if it's constipation. Dropsy can come without raised scales. The pinecone effect comes when the body become so bloated that they [scales] can no longer lay flat. If it's the early stages and it still has ways to bloat, then the scaled may appear fine. If this is dropsy, then it appears this is the early signs. It still looks as if the little guy/gal has room to expand. Try the epson salt (because, as mentioned, it will draw excessive water from the cells instead of allowing it to retain). Dropsy is typically associated with an internal parasite/bacteria. The parasite/bacteria eats away at the internal organs, causing internal bleeding. In the later stages, you may see a glint of red coming through. Other times, the internal disease is shutting down the kidneys, which creates an excess of water retention. This is where the salt may help. To identifiy if you have an internal disease, look at the fish poop. If it's white and stringy, then that a pretty good indication that you need to start treatment.

 

[Toirtis]

1. He is a dedicated carnivore...the only way he will ever eat peas if if they are covered in meat.

2. Dropsy or not, he will never get that 'pinecone' look...Polypteridae have hinged scales, not overlapping ones.

3. Don't add salt...sodium chloride or epsom.

4. Your water parameters are ideal.

5. I strongly suspect that your Senegal is simply a serious pig....he looks overstuffed....do you have any idea just how much he has eaten in the past 48 hours? I expect that he has eaten more than his fair share of feeders and worms. I have 60 bichirs currently, and about 10% of them suffer from overactive appetites, and occasionally one really stuffs himself, especially when offered a particularly relished food, and ends up looking a lot like yours. It is possible that he was being a bit underfed (parts of him look a bit atypically thin) before you got him, and he got a little crazy when he was offered unlimited food.

6. Bichirs can go a long while between feeds, so I would give him 3-5 days with nothing, and see how he looks then.

 

[Toirtis]

By the by, those are good looking bichirs, particularly the ornatipinnis.

Have you sexed them, or can you get a couple of good, clear pics of their anal fins?

 

[Inky]

Thank you and yes I have sexed them....I am almost positive the Senegal is a male and the Ornate is a female. I have attached some pic's.

I have personally seen him eat 2 rosy reds and some bloodworms (which I don't think he much cared for, Kept spiting them out) There are 2 unaccounted eaten fish for which I do not know who ate them. Of the two I thought he would be the healthier one. As he was more active and aggressive toward food and she seems to be a bit more shy and won't eat while being watched.

I moved him to the QT tank on Monday and I haven't feed him since the move. Now that he is out of the other tank I can tell how much the Ornate is eating. Yesterday she ate 2 rosy reds but her belly isn't swollen like the Senegal. But she is larger than him by an inch or so.
It almost seems like he is constipated? I have not seen him deficate.

Anyways I will keep treating the tank for parasites, hold off on feeding him and pray to see improvement soon.

I will keep everyone posted!

Thanks

 

[FMJnaX]

I aplologize for my lack of knowledge on Bichir's and for my resulting misinformed information. Personally, I wouldn't treat for parasites unless you're sure you have them. You mentioned that you haven't seen him deficate. This may confirm your suspision of constipation. I would hold off on parasitic treatment until you can confirm that you do have a parasitic problem (white poop namely). Since I gave misleading information the first time, you may want to wait for an expert second opinion.

 

[Inky]

Its not a problem....I have found that there are not many people who are familiar with this species. Toirtis and Fruitbat have been great resources.

Now that I am looking back at the 1st pic I posted of the Senegal it appears the swelling is in 3 humps? The latest photo there are no humps? Are my eyes playing a trick on me or can anyone else see it.

Maybe digestion is just slow?

 

[FMJnaX]

I see the hump outlines in the very first pic in the first post, but not in the second pic on the first post. On the updated post, I don't see the hump outlines at all. It doesn't really look defined much so I think it may have just been the way the shot was taken (water, angle, etc).

 

[Kari]

I can't even see the pics

 

[FMJnaX]

Ok. I had to get a closer look. I DO see a defined set of humps in both of the first pics. I also see a less defined set in the updated pics. But maybe it's just my eyes now... showing me what I was looking to find. I'm not sure what would cause defined humps, but maybe you're right about the slow digestion or constipation.

 

[Inky]

They are on page 1 of the post. At the top then at the bottom.

 

[Kari]

I know, I see the jpg file name, but not the pic itself! I don't know what's up with that?

 

[beblondie]

the senegal is male, the ornate (nice looking) is female

what meds are you using for parasites? bichirs are fussy about some meds.-Anne

 

[Inky]

We are treating the tank with Marycn 2.

 

[Toirtis]

It could be constipation, but I am hesitant to name it such....just keep him as he is and wait a day or two to see what happens.

 

[Inky]

I would like to thank everyone who has replied. He is still alive today but still bloated. But I am very hopeful. He's a trooper!
Thanks to Fruitbat who recommended I visit www.aquaticpredators.com
I would have to say it is the best site for anyone who has Polypterus. If you have a question I am almost positive they will have the answer! I will keep everone updated on his condition!!

Thanks again