Mollies starnge behavior

[meedo]

Hi all,

My Mollies or most of them started to act strangely lately (2 days ago), there is loss of appetite, they swim near the bottom or hiding behind the plants most of the time, they do this strange thing which they scratch their bodies against the bottom rocks very furiously like they want to take something of their bodies, last but not least there are a lot of fights going on female/female mostly.

Any ideas?

[meedo]

Worth to mention that the plants also started to die, I am afraid the fishes will be next

[rich311k]

Parameters? Tank size? Fish involved? When was the tank set up? Last water change? How much?

[meedo]

Temp: 27 degrees C
NO3: 0
NO2: 0
GH: 12
KH: 6
pH: 7.6

Tank size: 60 Liter

Fish community:
2 small white nugget plecos (1 inch)
1 Leopard catfish (1.5 inch)
3 White Dalmation Mollies 2f/1m (1.2 inch)
3 Black Dalmation Mollies 2f/1m (1.2 inch)
3 Sailfin Mollies 2f/1f (1.5 inch)

The tank is new, just 5 weeks old.

I did 1/3 change 1 week ago and another 1/3 one hr ago (the parameters are after water change) after a red-tailed shark incident the guys here suspected that the ammonia might be high and I need to do partial water change.

Worth to mention that the Sailfin female gave birth 2 weeks ago and I have 4 healthy naughty small fishes swimming all over the tank and eating normally!

[Mdakotared]

Scratching against rocks reads like Ich/Ick, especially if followed by small white spots. Do you have a heater? Fluctuating temperatures will make fish susceptible to disease. Its good practice to keep no more than one male Molly per three or four females. The males will literally "badger" a female to death, if attention is not spread among a number of females IMO.

[meedo]

I have a precise heater (plus/minus 0.25 degree) and it is set to 26C.

Well I read a wonderful article about Ich/Ick here and it seems that treating with higher temperature is the best way to work for me although I am not sure yet that it is Ich/Ick, the only symptoms I can see so far is the loss of appetite and the scratching against the rocks (which is done for the side of the fish not the bottom). However seeing a white spot on a dalmatian Molly can be challenging job

I will start rising the temperature gradually to over 86F (30C) and hope it works. I will keep a good eye on the fishes and see if any change of behavior starts.

[mom2reds]

meedo It sounds like your tank is not cycled , correct me if I am wrong, If this is the case be very careful increasing your temps, make sure you have a bubller or lower the water level so that there is plenty of water movement, high temps and increase ammonia levels are really hard on the fish. I would suggest that you do at least 50% pwc (partial water change) daily untill your tank is cycled. If your not seeing spots it might not be ICH internal parisites can cause these symptoms to.
Watch for white stringy poo, poor appitite and wieght loos

[meedo]

I just got me an expensive test kit and throw my test stripes away, the bad news is:

Ammonia 10 mg/l
pH value is 8
KH is 11

based on this and the table in the test kit my water is actually toxic
I will do a 50% pwc now and test the pH again.

I have high aeration in the tank using two separate air pumps!

[meedo]

Ok after 50% pwc and adding pH/KH minus the values are:

Ammonia 5-10 mg/l
pH 7
KH 10

I also added a Bactozym (Tetra product) to the filter media.

The loss of appetite is not as bad as before but still not eating as they used to, the crazy scratching behavior nearly disappeared for the moment. One pregnant Molly is acting like blind or drunk, sort of disorientation, I am guessing she is not going to see the morning light

[rich311k]

Change 75% of the water as soon as you can. Wait a few hours and do it again. That ammonia is still incredibly high.

[p3purr]

I agree that the tank isn't cycled. Even a well established tank that size can't support the fish you have, it's very overstocked. Get rid of some of the fish immediatly since your need to do this anyway, might as well do it now to save them from the cycle and give the other fish a better chance. The tank is big enough for 3 dalmation mollies (2 females and 1 male or 3 females).

I'd 50% water changes daily Check the water perameters (ammonia, NO2 & NO3) daily before you do the water change. When the ammonia drops to about 5 start doing about 30-40% changes EOD keep checking the perameters daily. If the ammonia levels continues to drop and NO2/NO3 are good do smaller do water changes every 3 days.

You need the ammonia level to drop fast but you still need the tank to cycle, doing large water changes for long periods can hinder the cycle.

[meedo]

Ich/Ick guess was right, two days ago the sail fin Molly female started to have the white spots over the forehead, I was already raising the temperature gradually since you all agreed that the tank was not cycled so I didn't want to add any chemicals on...now with the temperature constant at 31 degree C (plus or minus 0.25 degree) the white spots are starting to get smaller Needles to say that the strange behavior of flashing (scratching against the rocks) is gone so I guess we are on the right track with the Ich/Ick.

Water values now are as follow and I think this means that my tank is finally cycling but I am not sure what should I do

pH 6.5 - 7

kH 7

Ammonium (NH4) 2 - 5 mg/l

Ammonia (NH3) deduced from the table using the pH and Ammonium 0.01 - 0.03 mg/l

Nitrite (NO2) 5 mg/l

Nitrate (NO3) 100 mg/l

Next step?????????

[rich311k]

I would do a large water change, maybe two. Those numbers are high. remember to match temperature when changing the water. I am glad the ich is receding.

[meedo]

Well some of the guys/gals here told me to be careful with the water change because the tank is not cycle yet and this can hinder the cycle, my values for nitrate and nitrite were zeros one week ago.

[MisticX]

meedo, i experience same problems with the molly's (loss of apetite, disorientation) what i did so far is
- ICH treatment,
- fungus treatment
- external parasites treatment

my temp is still at 88F (i wanna get rid of ich once and for all)
and that might be a cause, BUT my bet is that it's the internal parasites.

if anyone else can elucidate WHAT parasite is the one that has the fish leave stringy poops behind them ... pls let us know too

[rich311k]

Originally Posted by meedo

Well some of the guys/gals here told me to be careful with the water change because the tank is not cycle yet and this can hinder the cycle, my values for nitrate and nitrite were zeros one week ago.

It may slow the cycle but it will keep your fish healthier. All those nitrogen compounds are burning their gills and stressing them.

[p3purr]

Originally Posted by rich311k

It may slow the cycle but it will keep your fish healthier. All those nitrogen compounds are burning their gills and stressing them.

I agree, just don't want to continue doing large water changes any longer than needed. (see my last post)

[meedo]

OK I know you all might be sleeping right now because we live in different sides of the world but I thought to break it out for you anyway.

Did a 50% pwc yesterday, minding the water temperature, added the AquaSafe and also NitrateMinus, this morning I found a female Molly who didn't show any strange symptoms and was perfectly healthy floating at the surface DEAD

Did a water test and the values strangely still the same for the Nitrate and Nitrite

[MisticX]

weird ;(

are you sure she was not giving any signs of disease ?

[meedo]

Not at all and that's what's funny about it because she was not doing the flashing before and its appetite was OK. I noticed that the two other females are breathing fast but I guess it is because of the parasites in their gills, they seem like when you are trying to drink after you just got mouth burns