Monthly Ich problem???

[SHARKDIVER]

Ok, the local fish store hasn't been too helpful as to why this keeps happening, seriously about once a month my fish end up with Ich. I get rid of it no problem in about a week and a half to two weeks. But sure enough a month later they get it again...Ich that is.

A little info on my aquarium may be needed, 50 gallon bowfront tank (will be a 200+ gallon tank within the next two weeks) residents in the tank are as follows 2 Tiger Oscars about 3 months old and approx. 2-3 long. 1 Albino Oscar of same age and size. Two Peacock Bass 4 months old and about the same size, and one Plecostomus about 4-5 inches long, age unknown. One air pump, supplying air to a full lenth stone (approx 35 inches long across the back of the tank) Tetra heater, and Hot Magnum filter, which I believe to not be enough filtration for the greedy messy eaters I have in the tank. Feeding goes as follows, Oscars get pellets twice daily (Spectrum sinking Ciclid Pellets morning, and Tetra Floating pellets in the afternoon) The Plecostomus seems to be more of a dominant eater when I use the sinking pellets hence the use of floating pellets too. Peacock bass get 6 small feeder fish once every other day.

Water changes are done weekly, and they are large 40-50% at a time. I deffinately don't neglect my fish. As stated above I believe my Hot Magnum filter isn't enough for the fish I have chosen, and suspect this is part of the problem. Here is why I assume it has something to do with the filter. The bass eat live fish, which I have been told is the messiest food possible to feed fish as every scale the falls off as they snatch the feeders obviously has flesh attached to it too. I've also been told that the two types of fish I have chosen are known to create a lot of waste because of their hearty eating habbits. I mean for god sake the Oscars just mash the heck out of their pellets, and since they don't close their mouths all the way food makes it back into the water. The sinking pellets also don't all get eaten some falls too deep in the gravel for them or the Plecostomus to eat. I know this because I can see it get vacumed up during my water changes. On top of weekly water changes I have to clean the sleeve in my filter weekly and the entire filter every other week. The sleeve gets dirty, and I mean DIRTY no more than 3 days after every water change.

What exactly causes Ich to occur? I'm assuming it's dirty water. Since I do 40-50% water changes weekly, the only way the water could be "dirty" is because it has to pass through all the junk in the filter.

The second reason I think it is the filter is after doing some research on Oscars, I've seen a lot of Oscar owners talking about having TWO filters and most claim each filter alone will cycle the water in their tanks more than 5 times in an hour.

So again what causes Ich to occur, why do I get it monthly, and what can I do so I don't get it monthly. I know people who don't even get it once a year, and they don't do water changes more than once a month. (Different fish in their tanks, such as danios or angels) And please don't suggest clean the filter more often, I don't have time to clean it more than once a week. And quite frankly it seems ridiculous to me I even need to clean it weekly, that seems more like a once every two weeks maybe even once monthly job.

Do I need a better filter that is, one; larger and two; filters more water? Such as an Eheim (sorry if I spelt that wrong) I'd rather spend $200 on a really good filter than clean mine more if that will solve my problem. I mean in the long run $200 is a lot cheaper than a $15 bottle of Rid Ich every Month. I mean in 12 months I will have spent $180 in Ich treatments, and since my fish can live 15 years or more...a filter seems like a more economical solution....if in fact it is the solution. Oh and that doesn't include the cost of the Nitrofurizone I have to buy because the Oscars seem to get fin rot in conjunction with the Ich.

Please help me, because I hate seeing my fish sick, and well also I'm a little embarassed to have to even ask this question because it probably seems that I don't take care of my fish and that couldn't be farther from the truth...these are my "children" and I'm starting to feel like a bad parent!!!

 

[Essayons89]

Ich out breaks can be triggered by sudden temperature swings, poor water conditions and over-crowding.

A HOT magnum alone isn't large enough for a 50 gallon tank. I run two Aquaclear 300's on my 55 gallon tanks but I don't have any large, heavy waste producing fish in them. IMO, the reason that you are having the ich outbreaks is because the tank is overstocked for the type of fish that you have. The 200 gallon will help some but may still be too small once these fish mature.

Until you can get the 200 gallon up and running I would strongly advise increasing the frequency of water changes and gravel vacs to two or three times a week. These will help to maintain water quality. Adding another filter wouldn't hurt either but the increased water changes will do more in the long run.

I know people who don't even get it once a year, and they don't do water changes more than once a month. (Different fish in their tanks, such as danios or angels) And please don't suggest clean the filter more often, I don't have time to clean it more than once a week. And quite frankly it seems ridiculous to me I even need to clean it weekly, that seems more like a once every two weeks maybe even once monthly job.

I couldn't begin to tell you why their tanks don't get ich. Maintaining good water quality is important to the overall health and well-being of the fish that we keep in our care. Many of the diseases that we see can be traced to poor water quality and/or overcrowding. Many times, these two go hand in hand. Ich isn't the only disease that can strike fish kept in these conditions- Flexibacter, Popeye, Finrot, Septicaemia, Hole-In-The-Head disease (Hexamita- which oscars and other cichlids are prone to getting) and Dropsy just to name a few. This is why water changes and gravel vacs are so important.

I perform water changes and gravel vacs on all of my tanks every 7-10 days. The exception is the discus tank (75 gallon) which gets two to three 30% water changes every week. I fit them in somehow and that's with working 60-65 hours every week.

Even adding more filtration is no substitue for good tank maintenance.

Just my two cents.

Bryan

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

Good advice from Bryan.

It's also highly possible that the feeder fish are bringing the disease into your aquarium.

Are you sure that it's actually ich and not some other problem (fungus, etc.)?

 

[SHARKDIVER]

Bryan, thanks for the confirmation and further advice. The only thing that shocked me is that you think even in a 200+ gallon tank. Which I should have added is only an estimation on capacity...I built the tank myself it's dimensions are 6ft long, 4ft tall and 3ft deep and it's still drying so I have yet to get to fill it with water to find out how many 5 Gallon buckets it takes...now that I actually think about it 200 gallons seems like a low estimation for that size. Anyone have a tank of similar size? If so how much water are you holding. Ok anyway as I was saying the only thing that shocked me is that you think a 200+ gallon tank would still be over crowded as these fish mature. Everyone I have talked to has said that 3 Oscars can live happily in as small as an 80 gallon tank. Not saying you are wrong, and just so it's known I do know how big both my Oscars and Bass can get (roughly 12-14 inches each), but looking at the size of this tank I built it's hard for me to fathom it's too small. But again I might have estimated it's capacity just a bit low. I know 8ftx4ftx4ft is roughly 800 gallons.....oh my friend's tank makes me so jeleous :x

Another thing you said brings another question to mind...hole in the head disease. What are the symptoms...I mean I know it SHOULD be obvious by the name. However I don't want to assume I know what the symptoms are. My reason for asking is one of my Oscars seems to keep getting random, what I thought were wounds, above his eyes and along the dorsal fin. I just never thought anything of it because they would appear overnight (I see them at about 4 in the morning when I'm getting up to go to the gym) and they are gone or 90-99% gone by 4 o'clock when I get home from work. I had, because they are gone so quickly, just assumed that he was getting poked at by the bass....he has a tendency to chase the bass. I figured they get fed up with it from time to time and poke at him to keep him in check, so to speak. I might see one MAYBE two small areas of white once a week, once everyother week. Also, there is no swelling or white cotton looking stuff coming out of them, just looks like 2 or 3 scales are missing in one spot. Is this also something I should be worrying about? I mention the no white cotton looking stuff coming out of them because when it first happened I took him to the fish store thinking it was scale rot (knowing Oscars are prone to said disease). They told me they just looked like wounds and if I saw what looked like cotton coming out of them to treat the tank with Nitrofurizone. Needless to say, less than 24 hours later it was gone.

One other thing I forgot to mention, which should have actually answered my own question in reference to water quality. After water changes I open and check my filter daily....sure enough once it gets more than slightly dirty like clock work 24 hours later my nitrate (I think it's nitrate, the one that comes first...nitrates break down and turn into nitrites right?) levels will go from dead 0 to .5 or more. If I clean the filter in a bucket of tank water and replace it, even without a water change less than 12 hours later my nitrate and nitrite levels drop back to 0. That's what leads me to believe I just have too small of a filter and why I believe my water isn't dirty. I mean like I said, I can JUST clean the filter, even just changing the sleeve out with a clean one, no cleaning or charchoal change, will result in almost instant water quality change. Let me know what you think about that.

Now with that said I will find time between my fulltime career and my second full time career as a college student to at least to 2 water changes weekly and purchase a new filter. I mean obviously if the Hot Magnum isn't enough for 50 it won't even come close to being sufficient for my new tank. Any suggestions, the pet store near me, actually the three fish stores near me seem to pitch Eheim filters pretty hard. Good filter, or something they are just trying to sell because they get smokin deals on them?

Oh here is a couple of questions that I have thought of while typing this....when setting up a new tank we all know the "cycling" process....which not only is for the water but creating a bacteria base in your filter. First question, when installing the new filter on the 50 gallon tank, should I run the Hot Magnum with my new filter (which will be large enough for a 500 gallon tank) because the new filter will obviously have not ever had established tank water ran through it. Or is the bacteria in the tank water enough to "cycle" the new filter? Second question, when setting up my new tank, is the 50 gallons of water in my old tank enough to start my new tank and throw my fish in or should I just fill the new tank with tap water, treat it, and cycle it for 4-6 weeks before using it?

Thanks again

 

[Menagerie]

ACK! It's too early to read all this. Sorry.
Here's what I suggest:
~read the article on FW ich in the Articles section and begin treating with heat and salt. I would treat in the 50 gal before moving them. The treatment should last for 2 weeks after the last signs of ich are gone.
~raise your own feeder fish. Feeder fish are housed in high populations and are often sick.
~Increase filtration and when doing water changes, stick with 20-30% per week. Anything more is stressful and unnecessary--unless there is high ammonia or nitrite levels.


As for the new tank:
~start fresh. Allow your fish to get well in the old tank, while establishing the new tank.
~use straight ammonia to cycle the new tank and put some of the bacteria from the established filter into the new filter--that will speed things up!

 

[SHARKDIVER]

ACK! It's too early to read all this. Sorry.
Here's what I suggest:
~raise your own feeder fish. Feeder fish are housed in high populations and are often sick.

Yes I found this out, and you read my other post this is one of the main reasons for me trying to get the Bass off feeders completely.

It was late when I posted myself, I had forgotten that I not only suspected my water but possibly the feeder fish, or a combo of both. Thanks all for the help.

 

[jhd]

It has been said many times that Ich can not exist without a host, so once wiped out from the tank, the tank is considered ich free unless: some water gets there from some other tank with ich (plants) or the fish with ich is introduced.
Looks to me like you do not wipe out ich entirely (treating too short after last white spot is gone (need over 10 days, 2 weeks preferred) or feeding fish re-introduces it. I agree with the feeder introducing ich theory.

 

[SHARKDIVER]

I have to agree as well with it coming from my feeder fish, I have for the past month been trying to ween my bass from feeder fish. They only get feeders once a week now instead of everyday, and the ICH problem has only reoccured ONCE in that month.

 

[Menagerie]

How is the weening going? Are they taking pellets?