Multiple problems, please help!

[Kelly5978]

I've made other threads. I'm losing my mind trying to help my fish! I have 2 tanks. I use separate nets (since I learned I should a month ago. 1st tank: 4 adolescent angelfish. 2 Bolivian rams, 2 blue rams, and a bala shark. I KNOW this tank has camallanus worms, but the rams with worms showin act fine (eat, swim in the open, etc). 2 of the angelfish are not eating, have clear, long, stringy poo, hide in a dark castle, and look like someone poked a hole Inbetween their eyes with a pen. The other Bolivian ram looks like its got holes behind its eyes on both sides, and has a green tint on its head. Now I noticed the bala shark has either black spots, or missing scales on its side. I'm waiting on levamisole. I've put kanaplex and metrondiazole in the tank (after which...1 of the non-eating angels proceeded to poo the longest clear string I've ever seen, and is still stuck to her). The eating fish are on their 6th and final day of metro food, and seem ok.
My 20g has 2 tiger barbs, 1 tetra, and used to have a plecostomis and cherry barb. I removed the plecostomis and cherry barb because they were covered in white dots (I've seen ich....that's not what this was). I thought the barb was dead in the tank, but found him hiding deep in a cave (just like the angels are doing in the 55g). He swam upside down a while in QT, before dying. The pleco has. Turned an unnatural white color and I'm sure will die soon. One of the tiger barbs has something clear all over it. When it swims, it has a green reflection. Oh, this barb also appears to be poked Inbetween the eyes with a pencil.
Why are fish in different tanks exhibiting the same symptoms? And why can't I help my fish? If your fish has ever shown these symptoms, please comment. I'm pretty desperate. I've spent so much time, money and love trying to do well at this hobby. I just don't understand!

 

[LuminousBeauty]

I am by no mean an expert, but in my opinion this sounds like "hole in the head disease," scientifically, head and lateral line erosion. This believe it or not is actually caused by using active carbon in your filter! My advance, TAKE IT OUT ASAP! Start doing 50% minimum, up to 90% water changes, to get that out of your water! It's not fatal, but will cause disfigurement. Make sure you are using your stress coat, stress zyme, and aquarium salt. Good luck!

 

[Mebbid]

It does sound like Hole in head disease, but it's definitely not caused by using carbon.

Metronidazole is the recommended treatment for it which you are currently using, but I would be worried about introducing your fish to more metro than they have already been exposed to. Too much can be a bad thing.

You have been having a heck of a time with your livestock recently. I think you should look into a new fish store

 

[LuminousBeauty]

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/disease/holeinthehead.php

 

[Kelly5978]

Thanks. I agree mebbid...too much metro is bad. Do you think I should take the non-eating angels out and just treat them with metro in the water? I put both metro AND kanaplex (kanaplex was recommended by the person I purchased the levamisole from, who believes all this is secondary bacteria). A few things happened after I added them to the water....my big black angel, and the other 2 I've had for 3 months, came back to life! They colored up, the patches disappeared, they look wonderful! The other 2 angels I got a month ago. I did QT them, but only a few weeks. They were eating, and acting great until I started feeding the metro food (6 days ago for the other black angel, who is now I had for 3 months, but stopped eating all of a sudden and began hiding, and is now in QT tank alone). The 2 newer angels ate the metro food for 3 days, then stopped. They hid for 3 days, not eating. Yesterday, they came out after I put the metro and kanaplex in. They still won't eat, but they are swimming with the others, and the gold veil has the longest, clear poo string, that's hung from her since last night (afraid it's her intestines). The other worry is the see-through appearance of both angels new mouths, and the constant movement as if having trouble breathing. The shark still has spots, and the 10g is still a mess (green/grey covering barb), but the angels/rams are my priority. I don't use carbon. I use purigen in one filter, and nitra zorb in another. I still keep thinking its the water. If carbon may be the issue, maybe it's because the water I buy is run through carbon? Is there anything besides vita-chem I can use to replace the electrolytes and stuff lost by using bought water?

 

[Mebbid]

Hole-in-the-Head Disease

Nobody has ever successfully linked carbon use to hole in the head disease. People have tried to blame carbon and others have done experiments with it but there has never been a direct correlation between carbon use and HLLE.

With the brick water that kelly is using from her tap being diluted with r/o water there will still be more than enough minerals and vitamins in the water for the fish.

It's a parasitic infection that's commonly linked to bad diet as one of the possible causes. What brand of food do you feed your fish? Like you did suggest at one point, the malnutrition could be caused by the camallanus worms which should be taken care of with your current course of treatment.

 

[Kelly5978]

i cant remember if i answered...but i havent used carbon in my tank since i cycled it. I was feeding frozen blood worms in the morning, omega one color enhancing flakes around 5 pm, and a veggie tab, broken up and soaked in vita-chem before bed. I realize I was probably overfeeding, but nothing EVER touched the gravel. Everything was always gone in 2 min, with everyone hovering around waiting for more. 6 days ago, I switched to the metro food. The 2 angels with see-through mouths, which are always moving (suggesting they are having issues breathing?) haven't eaten in 4 days. They ate 2 days of metro food, and just stopped. Today, I switched to api community pellets (which contain a lot of vitamin c, and garlic. Everyone ate....except the back-to-hiding 2 angels, and the bala shark with black spots on his side. The levamisole will be here tomorrow (says the seller). The 2 hiding angels at least stopped hiding when I put kanaplex, metro (powder form) and aquarium salt in 24 hours ago. I'm supposed to redose metro and kanaplex tomorrow. I didn't take the purigen out, so they're probably back to hiding because it sucked out all the meds. I won't have more kanaplex for 2-3 days. I have general cure (metro and prazi), but as mebbid mentioned, too much metro will hurt the fish that still look healthy and are eating. I am pretty convinced this is malnutrition due to worms, with a secondary bacterial infection. The only weird thing was the long (2"), clear, string hanging from one of the hiding angels. And, the big black angel (who IS EATING and the patches on both sides of his dorsal disappeared overnight) has twice now gotten a white mark on the front of his dorsal, which led to the fin basically "coming off" in a line from where the white mark was. both times, the fin grew back. i see another white mark today, and almost see a line where the fin will tear off. i always thought it was problems with other fish, because he was also missing scales a few times on his sides. could this be as simple as fin rot? i doubt it, but im trying to include every detail in case someone reads this and can tell me whats going on. But, I have to fix one thing at a time. My question now is: what do I give them TODAY? I have general cure, fungus clear (supposed to fix bacterial issues too), tetracycline, triple sulpha, and parasite guard. What works best as an overall bacteria killer (without killing the good bacteria in my tank)? I can't keep worrying and obsessing about this. I will use the levamisole as soon as it comes in, and want to treat for bacteria now. Just need help deciding what to use. Thanks.....
Last thing. I wanted to post a pic of Stan, just because he looks so great today! Please tell me the gold on him is just from my camera flash???? All of this couldn't be velvet right? No one has spots, and I haven't noticed flicking. My 10g actually has velvet right now, but I don't ever share nets or anything else! Geez. I really feel like I'm losing it sometimes! It's just so hard to decide what's wrong!

 

[Kelly5978]

Pretty devastated. First angelfish dead. Please help me stop this! Can I do anything to this poor fish to find out what was wrong? Can you see the indent between his eyes now? I'm so pissed!

 

[Mebbid]

You know, I heard a good quote once from someone whose name I can't remember. "Don't let your fishes stress become your own" and I think that's something that you need to take to heart. It is also a good thing to note that fish can't feel pain so they aren't suffering nearly as much as you think they are.

For the people that will argue with me on that note:
Fish cannot feel pain say scientists - Telegraph

How much metronidazole have you put in the tank in the past 2 weeks or so?

 

[Kelly5978]

I know you're right. I just love them! I fed them the food 6 days. The dead one, and one other..,only ate 2 days worth. The rest of the fish gobbled the medicated food all 6 days. I put metro powder and kanaplex in the tank yesterday. That's it aside from aquarium salt, and Pimafix/melafix 3 days prior.

 

[Mebbid]

I know you're right. I just love them! I fed them the food 6 days. The dead one, and one other..,only ate 2 days worth. The rest of the fish gobbled the medicated food all 6 days. I put metro powder and kanaplex in the tank yesterday. That's it aside from aquarium salt, and Pimafix/melafix 3 days prior.

That's a lot of metro already. It's recommended to do feeding for no more than 5 days with the food. I don't know if it compounds with the metro that is added to the water however.

Kanamycin is used to treat mainly bacterial and fungal diseases where HLLE is a parasitic issue.

The purigen shouldn't absorb and medications from the tank, in fact I would be surprised if it did.

 

[Tuck]

You probably have already but after getting the infected fish out did you sterilise your net after? I always boil my net after each time i use it. Nobody ever told me to do this but it just made sense to me. Otherwise the net could be covered in nastys and you just keep putting it and them back into the tank?

 

[Mebbid]

For organization sake can you make a list of the different tanks and the issues with them? My eyes glaze over on those long paragraphs

 

[Kelly5978]

I would laugh...but....
And, the medicated food package said 6 days.

55g-camallanus worms. Levamisole due in tomorrow.
3 angels (took the other one not eating out and put in QT). Keep having missing scales/holes on sides. Black one has "cut" dorsal fin twice, but it grows back.
2 German blue rams
2 Bolivian rams- seem "green". Have holes or missing scales behind each eye.
2 denisons barbs-fine
1 bala shark- black spots on side, not eating today.

QT tank 5g
2 adolescent angels. Havent eaten in 4 days. Shrinking. Haven't seen them poo in days either. When they were, it was clear stringy. The one who went into QT 2 days ago is attacking his new roommate.

20g- velvet (I think). All fish still eating.
2 tiger barbs/female is albino and egg filled. Male looks "dusty". Thought he was covered in green film, but realized its gold after further review. Flicking. Swimming nose down. Still trying to mate. Male has same indent between eyes that the dead angelfish had.
1 rasbodora-looks dusty
1 black skirt tetra-clamping. Jerking. Looks dull/dusty
1 scissor tail tetra- lethargic, dusty.
1 angelfish- fine (she's probably immune to everything. Had her a year, and she's been through a lot. She just doesn't like other angels).

I took out a cherry barb and pleco who were covered in white dots smaller than ich. Both died in QT.
(Sorry to comment, but please no lectures on schooling fish, or sizes. I know this is a mess of a tank. These are fish that didn't get along in other tanks, but play nicely together).

My guppy, betta and cichlid tanks seem fine.
Yes, I boil nets. However, I didn't until a month ago. So, if anything (like camallanus) can stay hidden for months, it's very possible it's possible it's everywhere).

 

[Kelly5978]

Got a pic of the tiger barb. Anyone want to confirm velvet?

 

[Mebbid]

55g - Hlle does sound like a likely culprit caused by the camallanus worms.

QT - Still possible camallanus worms

20g - I'm not familiar with fresh water velvet but I know that the salt water version of it is a nasty nasty disease that usually wipes out entire tanks. What are you doing to treat the velvet?

 

[Kelly5978]

55g. So, if levamisole comes in today, I treat. I took out the second not eating angel. Bad batch. It was barely swimming. Rather save my big black, and other 2 angels who still acts ok. Do I use anything else, or hope HTTH "fixed itself"? QT- sassy is feisty. Hasn't eaten in 5 days, but attacked the angel I put in with her. Tried blood worms today. No go. Do I put her in main tank to treat when levamisole arrives? 20g- I've wondered about velvet for a year, when I first started tanks. But, the fish don't die....just live sick. So, maybe it is ich. I've heard there are even 2 types. I refuse to google it, cause I'll just go spend money on meds I'll be too afraid to use. I have only put aquarium salt in this tank. It has a heater that doesn't adjust, so I was going to use coppersafe. I know it's dangerous, but I have no plants or snails, and I can't raise heat. Or....Im seriously considering bleaching the tank. I could put silver (angelfish) back in main tank (after QT/treating for ich), and the rest of the fish aren't valueable to me. Cichlids seem so much easier. Shawn puts water, prime, and fish....and they live happily ever after making babies. I saw the most beautiful jack Dempsey yesterday, and I'm really just tired of medicating and hoping. I will bend over backwards for main angelfish tank, but if I want to clear the 20g, what's the process to rid of all disease and start over?

 

[Kelly5978]

The blackskirt DOES appear to be ich...it just looks smaller. And they all look dusted with gold. And, I just noticed the open sore under his eye. I really think I'm over community fish! Cichlids (including my difficult angels) seem easier and hardier.