Orandas dying !

[magic8]

Hello all, although i have been a member for a while, taking a lot of good advice from these forums, this is my 1st post.
We have a 240ltr tank, with, now, 4 Orandas, we have just lost another one tonight.
We do 20% water change every week, water quality is good, filter media changed every 3 to 4 months, feed once a day, varied diet, sinking pellets, with garlic twice a week, bloodworm, occasional peas and cucumber.
We started with 8 fish, between 1 and 3 inch long, it seems that every 3 to 4 months another one dies( no, it doesnt tie in with media change ) no visible signs, and from sign of distress to death is less than 4 hours.
The latest appears to have had a stroke, only one side working, went down very fast ( 2 hours ).
Very frusrating, expensive top range fish in a tank established for more than 12 months.
No new additions this year, we are at our wits end and dont know what to do to stop losing any more family members.
Any hints or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Paul.

 

[Flossie]

You completely replace the filter media ? U dont let it grow beneficial bacteria before removing the old? Removing the filter media can cause mini cycles or worse. Maybe that's some
Of the problem. Where are u getting the fish?

 

[magic8]

Dont change all media at same time, change charcoal, then next time change briquetts( or whatever they are called) then filters, and they are always cleaned in water from tank.
Got the last 6 from Star Fisheries in London ( defra site ) in October last year, had the other two since July.
Thanks for quick response

 

[Coursair]

If you have activated charcoal/ carbon that usually needs to be changed monthly.

Are you feeding flakes ? Fancy Goldfish should be fed sinking food or you should soak flakes before feeding them. Otherwise they can expand too much in the stomach and cause fish to turn upside down. Green Peas, skinned n defrosted once a week are a good idea. Prevents constipation.

What symptoms did your fish show before they died ??

Also if I converted it right your tank is about 65 gallons. You should not keep more than 3 or 4 Goldfish in that size tank. They need about 20gallons (~76 liters) per fish. Most people do not give them enough room so they die. If they cannot grow, they die.

You might try larger water changes. Keep Ammonia at zero. Try some live plants. Make sure there are no sharp objects or fake plants that can injure them.

I don't change media same day as water change. On vacuum part of the bottom. I change carbon and rinse foam in tank water or dechlorinated water. Do not change biological media, unless it is so gunked up filter won't run. Just rinse same as foam. No tap water rinse.

 

[magic8]

Feed sinking food, soaked for 10 mins at least (aware of the expanding food in the stomach) and sometimes add a couple of drops of garlic.
Bloodworm twice a week, peas once or twice a week, sometimes thin slices of cucumber.
They didnt show any symptoms, just faded very quickly, went still and quiet, then on their sides, all over in two or three hours.
Rinse everything with water from tank, so shouldnt be causing a problem.
Of the four we have left, 1 of them, when fed sinking sticks does go on his side and spend the rest of the night on his side at the top of the tank, definately food related as he is ok with peas and bloodworm.
Thanks for your help.

Paul.

 

[Coursair]

Feed sinking food, soaked for 10 mins at least (aware of the expanding food in the stomach) and sometimes add a couple of drops of garlic.
Bloodworm twice a week, peas once or twice a week, sometimes thin slices of cucumber.
They didnt show any symptoms, just faded very quickly, went still and quiet, then on their sides, all over in two or three hours.
Rinse everything with water from tank, so shouldnt be causing a problem.
Of the four we have left, 1 of them, when fed sinking sticks does go on his side and spend the rest of the night on his side at the top of the tank, definately food related as he is ok with peas and bloodworm.
Thanks for your help.

Paul.

I did read of a case where the skin of a zucchini was apparently contaminated. I now remove the skin before I feed.

Have any sprays or possible contaminants been used near tank?? What is the temperature ?? Too warm means less oxygen. Hmmm.

I really hope you can save the rest. Do you add any salt ? Are you using a good quality water conditioner ?? I use Prime.

What kind of filter ?

Keep testing the water. Preferably with a test kit, rather than test strips.

 

[melosu58]

Welcome aboard. We are glad you found us here at AA.

Moving this to the FW unhealthy fish forum. You`ll get more answers there.

 

[magic8]

No sprays or contaminants ever get used near the tank, and the lid is always on.
The temperature is 24 degC, or 75 degF
We always add salt after water change, 2oz of API aquarium salt.
Water conditioner we use is Nutrafin Aqua +plus.
We feed gold japan sinking sticks, with added garlic concentrate twice a week, they get bloodworm twice a week, cucumber once and peas once or twice a week.
We are using a 1400 litre per hour external filter with activated carbon, ceramic bio rings and plastic balls, with built in UV. We also have an under gravel filter with two air stones supply bubbles.
I have just tested the water using a Nutrafin Mini Master test kit (slides are rubbish) and results were as follows:
Nitrate - 2.5 NO3 -N (sometimes goes up to 5NO3, but result sheet says ok until over 12NO3
Nitrite - None detectable
Amonia - None detectable
PH - 7.5.
All of which are well within the test kit guidelines.
Cant think of anything else just now, thanks for your help.

 

[jsoong]

Extremely hard to tell what is wrong. Did yolu noted anything unusal before the problem started?

With unexplained fish death, I usually do an autopsy. sometimes the only way to find out (& hopefully treat the remainder) is to look inside the dead fish. Sometimes you see obvious signs in the organs ... often, you need to hunt for parasites under a microscope.

My guess, in the absence of any external signs, is an internal parasite (brain flukes perhaps from the neurological symptoms), or possibly fish tb or virus. But this is jsut a stab in the dark.

 

[jsoong]

And how old are the fish? It may be old age as well.