pygmy catfish loses tail, then dies later on

[dragon14]

Since we have started keeping fish mid last year, we have run into a perplexing issue. In September, we got 5 pymgy catfish, and then got 2 more. Currently we have 7, but one is dying from whatever it is that is hurting him that I am going to write about below. We have lost about 5-7 pygmys total since last Sept, and it makes us sad for the fish and sad because we really like them, and also, it makes us not want to get any more of them after the ones we already have because of this!

At first we thought it was our female betta. We removed her and put her in her own tank, but it still happened, and we have no idea why.

A pygmy will lose part of his/her tail, most of his/her tail, or all of his/her tail. Then it could be a few days after we notice this that she dies, or he might die weeks or even a month or so later. It's very sad.

Our current fish that is most likely going to die before the end of the day, lost part of her tail maybe a month or two ago. Then a bit more tail loss later on, and then, maybe a week or two or three ago, we noticed that all of his tail was gone. Today we did a water change, and, before we did, we noticed 'no tail' swimming oddly and even being upside down a little bit. We cupped him and observed him... gills moving but not much else. Right now he is floating in the cup in the tank, and isn't really moving much.

Any idea what may be going on? Has this happened to anyone else on here's pgymy catfish? It is so so frustrating and seems very strange.

 

[sinibotia]

Any other symptoms on the tail itself as it happens? Also, keeping him in a floating cup may not be so good long term as ammonia may build up.

 

[dragon14]

Any other symptoms on the tail itself as it happens? Also, keeping him in a floating cup may not be so good long term as ammonia may build up.

Not that we have noticed. It's hard to get a good look because despite no tail, they can still swim quickly if wanted, except during the last day or two of life. The current fish was behaving and acting normally up until the last few days. It's hard to look at them up close because they are so skiddish and can scare easily.

I know The fish is more than likely going to die today, though. If the fish is still alive I'll change the water at least daily to prevent this.

We had a DISASTER with our female betta floating in a cup. It was due to no spare heater for our little 2g tank, but, we broke down and bought one 4-5 days later. I changed the water twice a day most days, leaving just enough water for her to hang out in until I added fresh water, and it got up to 2ppm ammonia when we took her out of the cup (I tested it before we dumped the water). I knew it would build up a bit, but, I didn't think it would be THAT bad. Imagine how BAD the ammonia build up is in the betta cups/small globes that they're sold in in stores. It makes me so sad to think about it :'(

But I digress... the poor fish will likely have passed by the time I get home from work tonight. :"(

This issue is SO SO frustrating. To lose about 6 fish to this? Why? kasdjflajdfkl

 

[dragon14]

Now that I am remembering better, we cupped her because we thought she was munching on pygmy catfish tails. We felt terrible and bought a heater after 4-5 days for the 2g tank we hadn't had a heater for. Thank goodness we did. 2ppm ammonia?!! Awful! We hated her being in the 2g too, and she got a fluval chi within a few weeks of being put in the 2g.

 

[sinibotia]

It sounds like some kind of bacteria infection but so difficult to say with no other evidence! And with the havoc an antibiotic can wreak on a tank I hesitate to recommend using one without being sure.

 

[dragon14]

Boo!

Sometimes there is a little redness, more like a spot or two, that is probably blood. But it hasn't shown every time on a fish. The current fish has a little redness near the tail stump.

I doubt if it is contagious or something though, because otherwise a lot more fish would have it in our tank, right?

We have a 20g high tank that contains: 2 panda cories, 6 harelequin rasboras, 1 male guppy (he grew up with the pygmys from a tiny little fry!), 1 bn pleco, 6 amano shrimp, and the 6 remaining pygmies.

When this first started happening, they were in a 10g tank with the female betta, and then we took her out after the third tail-less pygmy, and we got a few more pgymies and they came with 2 "free" guppy fry (guppies live in the tank with the pygmies at our lfs). Then we added 2 shrimp later on. Sadly, 1 of the guppies didn't make it.

So that is the history of our tank(s) and when this problem started.

As for the medicine, I agree! Plus, we have 6 shrimp in the tank, and I know a lot of medicines can hurt them

 

[sinibotia]

If I weren't just an undergrad, I would ask you to send me some of the poor deceased little guys. If I couldn't figure it out from an autopsy, I'm nearly positive my thesis advisor (a renowned fish disease specialist) could. But he's always busy of course and I couldn't truthfully claim the expertise to figure it out. It just sounds like something I've never seen or heard of- like fin rot but more lethal and with none of the symptoms.

 

[dragon14]

I wish I could get a clear picture.... I tried before when one of them died and the ipod touch takes crappy pics, esp of a tiny little fish. Not sure if my actual digital cam would take a good close up or not.

It's so weird... and we hate that it happens. It is so sad... to see the poor little fish without a tail suffering and panting out the gills.

 

[sinibotia]

I almost think it might be some kind of virus, maybe even something specific to these corydoras like the dwarf gourami iridovirus. But that's just reaching. I don't see any evidence of foul play, bacteria or fungus in what you've said, so I don't know. And you take care of your fish well so I know it's not water quality- unless maybe it has to do with water hardness?

 

[dragon14]

Yeah, we take good care The nitrates got a little high this last time, but, we take good care of the water and vac the sand so its nice and clean for little whiskers

Maybe... we do have hard water I believe. We have well water. I have tests for ammonia nitrite nitrate and ph... I dont have a gh/kh test I could get one at the lfs, but was advised it's not usually needed....

Other than the poor guppy fry that just didn't make it, our first betta (he was our first fish, he's my avatar) that died of dropsy, two pandas that just dropped dead one night (no idea why, one had a white spot on tail the other didn't and they were FINE acting the night before), and a shrimp that climbed out of our tank (we were so sad when we realized that was most likely why we were missing a shrimp...), we haven't lost any fish other than these pygmies. So sad and frustrating....

 

[sinibotia]

Well, pygmy corydoras are a less common variety... maybe they're wildcaught and just sensitive to the hard water? Or it may just be too hard even for tankbred. Well water can be ridiculously hard- my fiance has well water at her place up north and it's something like 25 degrees GH, 12 degrees KH. The well water at the aquaculture research center at the university here is so hard that I have to dilute it 9 parts RO to 1 part well. Could even explain why it's primarily corydoras having issues as they are predominantly soft water fish. Are you treating with water conditioner? Even if it's not chlorinated, heavy metals could still be an issue.

I know I'm reaching all over the place but there's gotta be something.

 

[dragon14]

I read that these fish usually ARE wildcaught, but I don't know if these ones are or not... next time we go to the lfs I will ask...

Absolutely we use water conditioner, we use API Stress Coat+. I know most everyone here loves prime, but I don't think our LFS has it, and Stress Coat seems to do the job.

I'm willing to get a gh.kh test kit if that is something you think I should do & test for... it's like $15 I think... I can get one when I get paid again... I AM curious about our water hardness, but didn't want to spend the $ on the test if I didn't need to....

Every time I test our PH, it is the same. Whether from tap, just added to tank, or right before a water change, 7.6 or higher... I don't have the high ph test kit, just the regular.

Thank you so much -- we have been SO frustrated with this... like what the heck are they (seemingly) randomly dying from?? There must be an answer somewhere...

 

[dragon14]

Oh, and in case it is not clear, these are the fish we have that are having this problem:
Corydoras pygmaeus (Pygmy Cory) — Seriously Fish

I'm sure you already know that, but, just to clarify .

So dang cute... those little faces!!!!

 

[sinibotia]

Oh man, those are the cutest little catfish. I wish they weren't illegal here so I could get them without ordering online.

The level and consistency of your pH suggests to me very hard water. I definitely think it's worth the investment- IMO GH and KH are arguably more important than pH to fish health. And hard water is really the only issue that stands out to me with these fish- it would make sense that it's only affecting corydoras. Guppies prefer hard water, I think shrimp do too, and harlequin rasboras and bristlenose plecos are among the fish that have been in aquariums for so many generations that they can likely adapt to anything. But wildcaught or even tank raised dwarf corydoras may struggle with very hard water since it is so far outside of their ideal conditions.

 

[dragon14]

They sure are.... wow they're illegal where you live?

I will get the test as soon as I can, hopefully by weeks end, and test out of tap and out of tank and see what I get....

I've read that most fish are adaptable within reason, but, these may not be.... the rest of the pygmies are doing well at the moment... I just dread the day when someone else has less tail or no tail.... because every single one that we have had that happen to has died. I can't stand it! We do have one that is fairly pale but otherwise normal.

So hard water could maybe cause tail loss like this then death? It's so weird... lose tail, then die... grrrr.....

 

[sinibotia]

They sure are.... wow they're illegal where you live?

I will get the test as soon as I can, hopefully by weeks end, and test out of tap and out of tank and see what I get....

I've read that most fish are adaptable within reason, but, these may not be.... the rest of the pygmies are doing well at the moment... I just dread the day when someone else has less tail or no tail.... because every single one that we have had that happen to has died. I can't stand it! We do have one that is fairly pale but otherwise normal.

So hard water could maybe cause tail loss like this then death? It's so weird... lose tail, then die... grrrr.....

Everything is illegal in Maine. They have an "approved" list of fish, anything not on the list is illegal without a permit. This includes ALL shrimp, ALL snails- actually, ALL freshwater inverts; dwarf puffers, all shelldwellers, many cichlids, many killifish... basically all the stuff that isn't a staple in the hobby(and even some staples- like Koi, and Jack Dempsey Cichlids). It's not really enforced at all on an individual level (impossible to, really) but it means I have to order most things I really want online, which is a gigantic pain. It also means the hobby is all but dead here.

The thing is that what you said is true- most fish are adaptable within reason. But what is "within reason" varies quite a bit. With wildcaught fish in particular it's harder to get them to adapt to different water. And if your well water is as hard as the well water around here, it's 5 or 6 times harder than those fish prefer. That might just be too different for them to get used to; it might not be "within reason" for them.

I don't think hard water is necessarily directly causing the tails to fall off, but it could be causing them to be very susceptible to disease because it's stressing them and causing immunosuppression, and/or adjusting their osmoregulation could just be consuming too much of their energetic resources for them to be able to fight off disease properly.