story about ich... thoughts/advice appreciated

[_brokenglass_]

alright. so this is my second try at keeping fish, and the same thing happened - ich within a couple days.

currently have a 10 gallon tank (yes, i know it's small for the fish i have, when they get bigger, i'm probably getting a 25 here -i'm in college, and 25 gallons is the biggest you can have- otherwise i'm taking them home and leaving them at my boyfriends house until i move out of the dorms) w/ a whisper 10 (100gph, i do believe) filter.

my first attempt at a setup was a bala shark, rainbow shark, and a pleco (all about 1 1/2 inches). the rainbow jumped out the first night i had it (have since covered the back of the tank). the next day or so, i noticed the bala acting pretty strangely. i looked at it closer that night, noticed it had white spots all over it, did some research, and realized it had ich. the pleco was showing it by the next day. i went to the pet store and got some "ich cure with formalin" ... didn't help, the bala died the day after, and the pleco a day or two after the bala (i think it was more the fact that i was using the ich cure that killed the pleco).

after all the fish died, i emptied the tank and started a pretty long cleaning process. i dumped the rocks into a strainer and soaked them in water that was about 120 degrees for... about a 1/2 hour, refilling the water when it dropped significantly. all the plants (plastic) went into a pitcher filled with water also about 120 degrees for about 1/2 hour as well. i took the tank into the shower, rinsed it out, then put water in it, scrubbed the sides and bottom with a paper towel, and dumped the water out. i did this about 3 or 4 times. when i thought it looked pretty clean, i took the rocks, poured them back into the tank, and poured about 3 inches of 120 degree water into the tank, and let it sit that way for about an hour, changing the water every 20 minutes or so. after that, i filled the tank, put the plants back in, used a water conditioner and a pH balancer (the water here is pretty bad). i let it run without fish for about 2 days.

went back to the pet store and picked up 2 more balas (after i read that rainbows don't usually like other sharks) and another pleco (different kind, it's spotted, closest i can find is L-163). they're all about 2 - 2 1/2 inches. everything was going fine, they were active, eating better than the last ones, not jumping out of the tank. i took a water sample to the pet store, they said besides the pH being a little on the high side (i think because the water is so hard, it's harder to keep the pH down) it was fine. temperature was steady between 75 and 77. (although this morning it was at about 80... not quite sure why)

wouldn't you know it, i came in today and saw ich starting in on my pleco (there isn't anything on the balas yet, but i read that once a fish is infected, assume the tank is). i, not wanting to lose 3 more fish, started frantically searching for solutions to the problem for one and for all. that ended me up here. (thanks to everyone who's replied to questions about ich) the temperature is at about 85, on it's way to 86-87. i bought rock salt, and scattered about 1/2tsp in the tank. i am trying to keep the lights off more (i read that keeping the lights on too much during the day can be stressful to the fish). and i emptied somewhere between 1/2 - 1 gallon of water so the water from the filter would fall further and agitate the surface more, providing more air.

if there's anything i did wrong, should do more of, should change, or should do in addition? i really like these fish and don't want to lose them. any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TankGirl]

Well I am sorry to hear about all this trouble. Fish are more susceptible to ich when they are stressed, and the first thing that comes to mind is that this tank is too small for these fish, even though they are small. There is not a whole lot of room to swim and this will stress them, so I think this is at the root of the problem.

You are right to raise the temp and add salt, but may I suggest getting aquarium salt (not marine salt, I believe Aquarium Pharmaceuticals has regular aquarium salt) and dissolve it in a small quantity of tank water before adding it. This will allow it to disperse throughout the water and be more effective.

Right now you are going to be dealing with a new cycle, plus ich, so it will be hard on the fish. If you can avoid it, I'd skip the pH balancer. Most common aquarium fish are well adapted to a wide range of pH, and I am always hearing the LFS tell people their pH is "too high," and encouraging them to keep it neutral. This is a complicated endeavor that requires a lot of monitoring of the pH and KH, and the swings in pH are more stressful than what comes out of the tap. Just a suggestion to keep things simple for now, and purely my own opinion.

Test for ammonia and nitrite and do regular water changes to keep these levels low, and after the water changes replace the salt only for the amount of water you took out. Your idea to lower the water level is a good one and should help.

Good luck!

 

[Menagerie]

[center:a7915d1020] Welcome to AA, _brokenglass_!! [/center:a7915d1020]

It's going to be tough cycling and fitting ich, but you can do it. Go the natural way with heat and salt for ich and stop using chemicals such as pH adjuster.

bought rock salt, and scattered about 1/2tsp in the tank. i am trying to keep the lights off more (i read that keeping the lights on too much during the day can be stressful to the fish). and i emptied somewhere between 1/2 - 1 gallon of water so the water from the filter would fall further and agitate the surface more, providing more air.

Sounds good, but I agree with TG that you need aquarium salt.
Those fish like room, so a new, larger tank is in order soon!

BTW~Do you ever go to Thorp's "fruit stand" on the west side of town?

 

[_brokenglass_]

alright... tomorrow will include a trip to the pet store to get aquarium salt (i only got rock because the pet store was closed and i wanted to do something about it last night) question - how much should i put in, should i combine it with a water change? since i already added the rock salt. the temp is sitting at about 85.5, i raised it a little bit. and the balas still aren't showing signs of ich.

maybe i'll ask for a bigger tank for christmas

btw - i've been over there once, not recently though

 

[Menagerie]

Do a 30% PWC and add a tablespoon of salt per gallon--go ahead and add all 10. I don't think that rock salt has done much in such a small amount.
You will also need water test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The liquid tests are much more reliable than strips.

I love Thorp's! My husband and I stock up on tasty fruit syrups whenever we go through there. Plus, the antique store is fun to look in and it makes a nice break from driving.

 

[aaronm]

i'm new here. But i know most of you are experts. I have 25 gal tank but i never heard of adding salt to the tank? I had no problems with my fish. I have about 3 Dino and a breeding Sword tails. and i added a couple of more Asst Patty to the tank this weekend..and Boom..Ich problem. If i crank up the heat and add salt that will help? beside the ick clear stuff?(blue Stuff)

 

[Menagerie]

[center:4a9e212550] Welcome to AA, aaronm! [/center:4a9e212550]

Read this article and you will successfully be able to treat any tank that has an ich problem!! Don't bother with the ich meds for this as they stain tank sealant and some fish do not handle the meds well.
In the meantime~
What fish are you keeping?
How large is the tank?
What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temp)?

 

[aaronm]

Thank you for the welcome.

I'm new at this. ITs a 25 gal tank. Been running since Feb. Gone throw all the cycles and killing fish along the way. But i finally think the tank is balanced. I havent lost a fish in three months I just have 5 Zebra Tetra and a pair of Sword fish. I guess they are breading pair because i was cleaning the tank last week and i noticed baby fish swimming around. So i moved the babies to a small 2.5 gal using tank water. So for they are doing pretty good. Last week i added a couple of Black platties and couple of red ones. Then i noticed Ick going on them. So i been trying the medication with no results. So last night i showly increase the temp to85 and added salt today. So i hope the clears it up. As for the parameter. I dont know. I really havent go that indept to the tank. But i think are well because the sword fish are breading and think the female is "expecting" again. She getting fat. How do you now when she going to give brith?

 

[Menagerie]

But i think are well because the sword fish are breading and think the female is "expecting" again.

I don't like to use spawning fish as a sign that everything is okay. Some fish will give birth right before death. To be safe, bring a water sample to your LFS and ask them to test it. Write down the actual numbers, don't just take, "It's fine" as an answer.

How do you now when she going to give brith?

I'm not sure. There is plenty written about live bearer births--just google that

 

[_brokenglass_]

quick question. well, and a short story.

story: my pleco's been acting really strange the past couple days. it reminds me of how the other one was acting before it died, but so far, this one's still alive. he lays in the plants, and sometimes just floats around until he lands in/on something, then he'll kind've stay there.
story part 2: one of my balas has also been acting strange today, he was over in a corner vertically, facing the top of the tank.

i thought that there probably wasn't enough air in the tank, got scared, and frantically biked down to fred meyer to pick up an air pump and stone. is it likely that's what the plecos problem was if right after i put it in, he swam over by it? he was getting caught in the bubbles and floating up, then would swim back down. now he's a little bit away from it, but he's latched on to the rocks instead of sticking himself in a plant. and the bala isn't in the corner anymore, it's getting its tail chased after by the other one. this is just 5 minutes after i put it in though, is it likely that its helping, or the fish are just intrigued by my putting something new in the tank? i really hope this works, i don't want to lose these fish!

*the balas swim in a little area with their mouths opening and closing, like they're eating. are they hungry or just being weird?*

also, i'm thinking i should do a 2-3 gallon water change tonight? and then bike back to the pet store tomorrow to get aquarium salt (they were closed when i went to fred meyers. who closes at 5:30!? sheesh.) or should i add a little more rock salt, and wait to do the water change and re-salting tomorrow? please help...

 

[Menagerie]

is it likely that's what the plecos problem was if right after i put it in, he swam over by it?

No

or should i add a little more rock salt

No
Go ahead and do a PWC tonight--if you get this message.
Keep an eye on your fish. If the odd floating continues, that is a sign of bigger troubles, but I am unsure exactly what at the momment.

Is the pleco still eating? Is the bala shark eating?

 

[_brokenglass_]

yeah, he's still doing it.

the balas are back to normal, they're chasing each other around still, and yes, they are eating (they chase the pellets around as they fall. most amusing). i think the pleco is eating. alright, i'll do a 30% water change tonight. thanks.

 

[Menagerie]

To see if the pleco is eating, feed a zucchini slice. Secure it to a rock with a rubberband or use a veggie clip. My plecos love zucchini and if you leave the room lights off, but the tank lights on, you may see him eating.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=35133
See what I am talking about?

 

[_brokenglass_]

okay. so the pleco was dead this morning. i wonder if maybe he did starve? in any case, i'm going to wait until the tank has cycled to get a new one. i should've done that in the first place.

the weird thing is - the balas haven't shown any signs of ich. is that normal? for only one fish to stay infected? they're not acting sick either. so strange.

i did the 30% water change last night, the water is still sitting at 86-87 degrees. how long should i leave it that high?

also, should i include little pieces of algae tabs for the balas with their other food (some flakes and some sinking shrimp pellets)? i put a 1/3 of a tab in last night and they were eating off of it.

 

[TankGirl]

Sorry to hear about the pleco - I was reading through the thread and really rooting for the poor fella.

Leave your temp sitting there for at least 4 days after you see the last ich spot. You can include algae tabs occasionally but feed during the day and be sure you are not overfeeding - uneaten food collecting in the substrate will send water quality down quickly. If there is illness in the tank I generally feed very sparingly, skipping days, and increase water changes until things are totally back to normal.