Tiger Barbs and Plecos died within 2 days without warning

[Noximus]

I recently upgraded my tank to 40 gallon and let it cycle for over a month before I added any fish to it. I have had my two plecos and one tiger barb for over two years from a 10 gallon tank, and when I added them to the new one they were fine. About two weeks ago I decided to get 4 more tiger barbs to add to the new tank, since it had set up fine. They too, have been fine for over two weeks with no problems, but I woke up yesterday to find one upside down dead. And the others sick with something. It didn't look like Ick because it looked as if their skin was completely falling off, and their eyes had a white coating. They looked very sick nonetheless, and were in horrible condition. I didn't know what to do and immediately tested the water. There was no ammonia, no nitrate, no nitrites and the PH was fine as usual. I have been keeping up with water changes every week and I am completely flabbergasted to why they died. Makes me very sad because I have had some of these fish for a long time Currently, my smallest pleco is alive and kicking, but I don't know if he will be inflicted by the same disease that got my other fish. I am worried what to do with the tank, if this pleco dies as well, and also what happened to them. I have been doing my best to keep them in top care, and don't understand why they died. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Devin.

 

[An t-iasg]

Welcome to Aquarium Advice!

When you say you cycled your tank for over a month, what exactly did you do in this time? Cycling a tank means growing colonies of the beneficial bacteria needed to break down the fishes' waste products (ammonia). Running the tank empty for a month doesn't mean you are cycling the tank. Cycling - fishless cycling - involves the process of growing the bacteria, which means adding a food source for the bacteria (pure ammonia or a rotting shrimp), and either waiting until the bacteria appear on their own, or you can use some media from an established tank to add bacteria. When ammonia is 0 ppm, nitrites are 0 ppm, and nitrates are around 10-20 ppm, your tank is cycled. The 0 reading for your nitrates concerns me and I wonder if your tank is truly cycled. The ammonia and nitrite reading of 0, combined with a nitrate reading of 0 may mean that the cycle hasn't even started. If you're unsure about the various stages of the cycle, do some google searches for "fishless cycling" or "aquarium cycling".

With a pleco, you should see ammonia readings from your test kit if the tank hasn't cycled. Plecos are big waste producers. If your tank isn't cycled, you'll have to do water changes anytime your ammonia reaches .25 ppm or more. You may be doing water changes every day until the good bacteria can catch up with the bioload of the fish that you have.

If your tank is cycled, you could have purchased sick tiger barbs. Did you quarantine them in a separate tank before mixing them with your older fish?

 

[Noximus]

Thank you very much for the response! By cycling the tank, I meant exactly what you stated. I was a bit vague in my post about the nitrite, ammonia, and nitrate levels. Nitrite and Ammonia were both 0, but nitrates are at 10 ppm. When I first let my three older fish (2 plecos and tiger barb) into the tank they were happy and I had no problems with them since. After a few weeks of letting them get adjusted, I decided to get a few more tiger barbs, after reading that they were schooling fish and tended to fin-nip if not kept in schools. The new fish reacted well with my current barb, and they adjusted fine as well. I have been changing the water regularly, and checking the chemical levels to ensure that they are up to par.

I didn't quarantine the new fish before adding them to the established aquarium, I have no second tank for quarantine. I assumed they were fine because for the few weeks they've been in there they have been fine, I don't know if there is a way they were carrying a sickness that spread after a random period of time.

The new fish have been in the tank about two weeks with no problems, they all have been eating and playing well, and their colors as vibrant as ever until the past two days. I went to feed my fish when I noticed all of my barbs looking incredibly sick. It looked as if their skin was almost rotting off, and their eyes looked glazed over and white. They sort of just hovered at the bottom of the tank, breathing heavily. The plecos seemed fine at this point. I didn't really know what to do. I researched it and didn't find they matched any of the symptoms. Nothing like ich, fin rot or anything else resembled what they had. Finally they started dropping off very rapidly, all of my tiger barbs first, then my largest pleco and my smallest pleco just a few hours ago. I attempted to get a picture of the last one, but it came out smudgy and unclear.

I have no idea what caused this, and it is very saddening as well as frustrating, because I did my best to keep them in the very best of condition. At this point I don't know what to do about the tank, to make it sanitary again. (I'm not sure if it has a bacteria or virus the fish caught.) Sorry for the long post, but I really appreciate the help.

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm sorry for your losses. I have been very attached to fish too and it's hard when they die despite your best efforts.

It does seem as though the new fish brought in a disease. Without seeing some pictures it's kind of hard to say, but I looked at a fish disease chart and my best guess is that the new fish had columnaris, a bacterial infection. Sometimes it looks like the fish has a "saddle" on their back as the disease progresses. Columnaris can be fast-spreading and hard to stop. How do the other fish look? I would consider an antibiotic if the remaining fish show the slightest sign of being sick. Watch your ammonia levels as you treat - meds often say they don't harm the biological filter (the good bacteria) but an antibiotic will kill good and bad bacteria.

A quarantine tank can be set up easily. It can be a Rubbermaid-type plastic container, a heater, and a sponge filter with airpump. You can set it up only when you need it. It is best to quarantine new fish for two weeks, and three to four is better. Quarantining new arrivals prevents diseases from being spread to your main tank. You can treat in the main tank, but you're going to have to watch your ammonia levels with an antibiotic use. Good luck and I hope your remaining fish are ok.

 

[Noximus]

Thanks for the help, my last pleco passed away the other night so I have no remaining fish in the tank I attempted to get some pictures but they came out smudgy so It couldn't help at all.

Should I empty some of the water out of the tank now that I have no remaining fish, or add some anti-biotic to the water? I don't really know what to do to make the tank safe for fish again.

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm very sorry to hear that.

I would probably empty this tank completely and wipe it out with a rag soaked a a water/bleach solution. Rinse very well - you could fill the tank again and add a triple dose of dechlorinator to counteract any remaining bleach. If you have a python, you could fill and empty the tank easily. Let the gravel dry out and soak any plastic plants in a diluted bleach solution too.

Rather than add antibiotic to the water, I would just tear down the tank to be safe while it's empty. You would have to cycle it again but the 4 week or so cycle time without fish will be beneficial to make sure all the disease-causing bacteria are eliminated.

 

[Noximus]

I do have a python, I'll just empty everything while I vacuum any remaining stuff out in the tank. As far as the bleach solution, can I use it while I keep the gravel in the tank? How much of a bleach solution do I use also? I'm not familiar with this process

 

[Innovator]

The condition described reminds me of a Chilodonella outbreak where the tissue appears to be deteriorated with heavy mucus; although, without an actual wet mount sample it's anyones guess and probably a combination thereof. Fish with Columnaris usually show signs of red spots along the mouth, gills, and tail regions eventually ulcerating...always a possibility. Anywho, a diluted bleach ratio, according to Scripps Research Environmental Health and Safety, is 1:9 (bleach:cold water) or 10%. Do realize that bleach does not kill any and all pathogens, Mycobacterium for one, and I have even found common freshwater snails to survive a much higher ratio.

 

[An t-iasg]

I have been thinking about your question - about bleaching the gravel. I have only bleached an empty tank. I'm afraid that you'll have a very hard time rinsing all the gravel well enough after you bleach it. I have also bought new gravel once or twice after a teardown. I bought new gravel for 5 or 10 gallon tanks, so that would not be the expense of buying new gravel for a 40 gallon tank. Did I read somewhere else that you also have an acrylic tank? I know that removing gravel may lead to unintentional scratches on acrylic when you're pulling that much gravel out.

Now I have planted tanks and I use Eco Complete as a substrate. It is rather expensive and I wouldn't want to change it out when a fish dies. Instead, I leave the tank set up, do water changes every week as if the fish were still in there, and not get any new fish for about a month. The term for this is a "fallow" tank. With no fish host, any parasites are going to die, and hopefully any disease-causing bacteria will be reduced as well - remember to keep up with the water chages. This procedure is rather easy for me since I have one betta in the tank. Since all your fish died, you could use this fallow method too.

 

[Innovator]

Bleaching gravel is rather simple. You can either fill a bucket with gravel first, then add water and bleach (mix the gravel so the bleach penetrates the bottom layers) or fill a bucket with bleach water and pour the sand in. You can use sodium thiosulfate (sts) to neutralize the bleach afterwards and thoroughly rinse. The gravel will have a slimeyness and sts smell before rinsing so make sure, repetetive I know, to rinse thoroughly! I agree that scratching the tank is a possibility, but you can use a semi-large diameter hose and just siphon the gravel out which shouldn't cause any friction against the surfaces. Although leaving a tank fallow can work with parasites, many bacteriums can survive years without a specific host unless dried or even alcohol/flamed.

 

[MommyWithAHobby]

similar problem

Hi, I'm totally new to this site but I found your thread and comiserate. I had the same problem, but by the time I discovered it, the new fish were dead and all my other fish seemed to have ick and despite my medicating the tank (wish I'd found your site then, I would have maybe done a salt bath and jacked up the heat) everything died within 2 days except my lone cory who looks a bit lonely. Some of my other fish I've had for years, I was thinking my tricolor shark was getting ready to get huge, and my tiger barb was fairly big too, but alas they're all gone, my 3 year old insisting on doing the flushing for the last barb and tetra, saying "bye bye fish". I'm trying to figure what to do next, do I need to clean this tank and scrub it, should I give the cory away and use the opportunity to upgrade to a larger tank? I've had this 20 gal for ages. A neighbor was throwing away a 50 gal hex that I have sitting outside now, I'm trying to figure if its worth it to start that up instead, but I'd have to get a new piece of furniture for it, not to mention filter and stuff, and it seems rectangular is more common. Or should I just hold off on the expense and wait until I'm well into paying my kids' religious school tuition (and that they'll be older) to start with all that. Any thoughts?

 

[mandown123]

you can grab yourselfg a cheap tank (5-10 Gallon) and throw the cory in the with new dechlorinated good source water and Quarantine him there while you do what was suggested in this thread previously - the fallow tank. just do the water changes like what was said for a month - 2 months and keep and eye on the cory in the Quarantine tank and if he gets sick treat accordingly, while letting your main tank clear up any infestation.

hope that helps

as far as the tank goes - let the kid suffer through public school and set up a sweet planted tank! lol just my two cents. good luck

 

[MommyWithAHobby]

Good advice

thanks mandown123, I think that sounds like great advice. My cory still looks great, I'll hopefully get the new tank this weekend. I think he's getting used to solitude anyway. I tried plants a number of years ago and never had much luck with them, and I do like the action of the fish, and so do the kids. When I pick up a quarantine tank I'll check out how expensive all the extra stuff to set up a big hex will be and decide then. Thanks!

 

[mandown123]

just be cautious as no one has yet been able to identify the particular disease episode your tank suffered from..