Anyone dose Excel with Riccia?

[7Enigma]

I've been trying to find out why my Riccia flounders in my main tank (good lighting, heavy ferts, CO2), but survives just fine in my 10 gallon QT tank (crappy lighting, little to no ferts, no CO2).

I'm starting to wonder whether the Excel I had been supplimenting with was causing problems? I've never heard of anyone having problems with the two but just wanted to check.

My favorite 2 plants I recieved from GlitcH have now either died or had to be removed from the main tank (glosso and Riccia). All of my other plants are flourishing...Most of the Riccia IS floating in the QT tank since the lighting is so low (15w NO over 10 gallons, while the main tank is 65w CF over 20).

 

[JDogg]

i have not had a problem. i have some in my DP tank and i use excel as the only source of carbon.

 

[malkore]

AFAIK Excel doesn't negatively affect riccia.

 

[7Enigma]

Well that stinks.

 

[Zezmo]

I would actually say that Excel does in fact turn Riccia to mush. Maybe not at normal doses. I use excel at double dose to spot treat algae, and if I keep that up for a few days in a row Riccia will melt.

 

[7Enigma]

Zezmo,

Thank you so much for that reply. I tend to haphazardly dose Excel, especially when my yeast is starting to peter out, or if I see a deficiency I'm not sure what is causing it.

I also dose the recommended level at water changes.

I could very well at a given point have more Excel than recommended on some days.

Again, that would explain why it is thriving in my QT tank, as I sometimes dose Excel in here but very low levels due to the snails.

 

[yohann976]

I agree with Zezmo.

When I first purchased my riccia, it wouldn't grow at all. So I began dosing Excel at the recommended levels and it began to take off. Noticing this, I began to dose at higher levels but it nearly killed my riccia (along with my vals).

Since then, I have been dosing Excel at the recommended levels and my riccia has grown back.

 

[hashbaz]

One more vote saying that overdosing will kill it, but regular dosing will not.

 

[travis simonson]

I've done some testing with Excel and have also used one of the raw components used in Excel called glutaraldehyde. I don't claim to be a chemist but I have noticed similar effects when dosing both: 1] both are excellent algacides, especially when used against BBA and other leaf-growing algaes; 2] during reduction periods (i.e. lights off/night-time) both tend to diminish O2 levels in the water column, sometimes leading to surface gasping by the fish; 3] low pearling rates by all plants due to reduced O2 levels in the water column (pearling being caused by O2 saturation).

I can only surmise that Riccia is affected adversely by high levels of glutaraldehyde (and thus Excel) reacting in some way to reduce O2 saturation levels in the water column during reduction periods. This results in very low morning O2 levels at lights-on. I suspect (and I would love to hear Tom's opinion on this) that it takes the tank longer to pump back up when the lights do go on.

I have stayed up all night during lights-out measuring O2 every two hours during a heavy glutaraldyde dosing cycle and have seen O2 drop precipitously from full saturation (~8ppm) to near 2-3ppm (gasping levels) before the lights came back on and oxidation began again.

Take this as you will, but I believe that one or more of the active ingredients in Excel (*cough* glutaraldehyde *cough*) reacts in some way with the native bacteria in the water column to reduce O2 levels to a dangerous point when used in high-enough levels.

 

[7Enigma]

I've done some testing with Excel and have also used one of the raw components used in Excel called glutaraldehyde. I don't claim to be a chemist but I have noticed similar effects when dosing both: 1] both are excellent algacides, especially when used against BBA and other leaf-growing algaes; 2] during reduction periods (i.e. lights off/night-time) both tend to diminish O2 levels in the water column, sometimes leading to surface gasping by the fish; 3] low pearling rates by all plants due to reduced O2 levels in the water column (pearling being caused by O2 saturation).

I can only surmise that Riccia is affected adversely by high levels of glutaraldehyde (and thus Excel) reacting in some way to reduce O2 saturation levels in the water column during reduction periods. This results in very low morning O2 levels at lights-on. I suspect (and I would love to hear Tom's opinion on this) that it takes the tank longer to pump back up when the lights do go on.

I have stayed up all night during lights-out measuring O2 every two hours during a heavy glutaraldyde dosing cycle and have seen O2 drop precipitously from full saturation (~8ppm) to near 2-3ppm (gasping levels) before the lights came back on and oxidation began again.

Take this as you will, but I believe that one or more of the active ingredients in Excel (*cough* glutaraldehyde *cough*) reacts in some way with the native bacteria in the water column to reduce O2 levels to a dangerous point when used in high-enough levels.

Travis,

Have you ever stayed up all night and measured the O2 levels without dosing CO2? Within a couple days of the night measurement with Excel?

As we all know, CO2 levels will rise and O2 levels will decrease throughout the night due to the dark cycle of the plants (respiration). That combined with the bioload (fish/snails/etc) can cause a severe decrease in O2 levels.

I'm trying to tease out the actual cause of the O2 depletion, and would wager that the Excel doesn't play much of a role in the depletion.

But if you did do a back to back study, I'd be very interested in the results!


As for my future plans I think I'll keep the riccia for now in the QT tank until I get the pressurized CO2 up and running consistently (I've been really lazy trying to find a 5 or 10lb tank), then I'll have no need for the Excel (probably still dose 1/2 to 1/4 recommended after water changes until the CO2 level gets back up).

 

[travis simonson]

I'll admit that I've never done a control for this study. It would be a good idea but it wore me out to wake up every two hours for the first one. I will try it next time I have a couple of free days though. Thanks for the idea

 

[7Enigma]

How were you measuring the O2 levels btw?

 

[travis simonson]

I was using a LaMotte O2 titration test kit which I trust wholeheartedly. Each test took about 10 minutes; not a simple process to say the least