Heavy Root Feeders?

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Simpte

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
436
Location
Dayton, Ohio
I am curious as to what this means. I see this on many other sites as well. Why are some plants (swords for instance) classified as such? I am absolutely sure all plants perfer to take nutrients through the water column. This has been proven time and time again. I can grow swords just as well in nothing but pool sand and dosing the water colums. I know swords develop huge root systems but I always attributed this to the region where they are located and the necessity to do so due to current in streams and rivers. Can anyone explain this to me? It takes a plant more energy to draw into the roots and transfer nutrients vs drawing them directly into the leaves. And as we know some nutrients are immobile (fe, and ca being 2 of them).
 
You have very good points Simpte. I use the term "heavy root feeder" to refer to plants that can benefit from a rich substrate and/or substrate fertilization with fertilizer tabs. It's a relative term in the sense that, since a large percentage of aquatic plants derive sustenance primarily through foliar feeding, any plant that shows noticeable improvement due to enriched substrate is a "heavy" root feeder by comparison.

Cryptocorynes (C. wendtii and its hybrids in particular) come to mind immediately when I think of plants that can benefit from substrate fertilization. The Pogostemon genus also develops healthy root systems that definitely do take up nutrients. Try placing a fert tab containing a bit of potassium nitrate beneath a P. stellata plant and watch it turn green and lose its pink/red coloration as it fattens itself from the NO3. This is one case where I prefer to starve a plant of NO3 in order to bring out the red color. OK, I'm beginning to wander :p
 
So would it be fair to say that macrophytes can benefit from extra macros in the substrate? If so then why not dose heavy in the water column? Don't get me wrong, its nice to know that plants can derrive nutrients from a substrate but isn't that why we look for ones with high cec (cation exchange capacity)? A good substrate will absorb nutrients from the water column also where the plants can use them. But well all know every substrate will have a buildup of "mulm" which breaks down into various forms of N. Why is it the P. stellata (I like this plant to by the way) still turns red when No3 readings are under 7ppm (approx values) when we know there is plenty of N in the substrate in the form of ammonia and nitrite? This can be tested by stirrinh up your substrate and waiting for the greenwater to bloom. It most certaintly will. I may have to run this by Tom Barr.
 
You have taxed my meager knowledge of N uptake in aquatic macrophytes to the limit Simpte :? You've got me curious now too. I had never considered the fact that there really should be plenty of N in the substrate in a mature tank. Excellent question. This really does sound like a question for Tom Barr or Steve Hampton :)
 
The N could be feeding the bacteria as there is quite a bit in a planted tank substrate. I sen't Tom an e-mail but not expecting a reply before Christmas is over. Anyone else have any input? I'm looking for all angles and theories. Your theories are as good as mine :)
 
I have no scientific data to provide, just an observation. It happens to be the swords as well.

Prior to adding root tabs, my swords just "lived", no growth whatsoever. Since the addition, growth is occurring (though not as much as if I had higher light levels).

I recently added some Vals and since I had the experience with the swords, I immediately added the tabs to them as well. The growth has been phenominal.

I look forward to having some answers as well.
 
I'm with Jchillin, I have some hygro rose, it was not doing well @ 120w on a 75, but it was almost maintaining itself. I added root tabs and noticed a lot of the sappers(not sure if that's the right name, but they are like roots all the way up the branch) started falling off which told me it was getting enough nutrients from the gravel now that it didn't need them to pull from the water column, adding a further light strip (now at 200w) and I notice they are a nice bright red, some are still not doing well since the lighting was too low for them, but I'm hopeful for a recovery. (and I'll be adding a further 80w if my fish don't develop cateracts by then)
 
That still doesn't account for nutrients that are immobile. Adding iron to your substrate is useless unless it leeches into the water column. And instead of adding root tabs, why not dose more in the water column? It should provide the same growth shouldn't it? My vals all grow well without substrate tabs. Keep the answers coming!! Maybe one day we'll figure it all out :)
 
Simpte said:
That still doesn't account for nutrients that are immobile. Adding iron to your substrate is useless unless it leeches into the water column. And instead of adding root tabs, why not dose more in the water column?

I'm not sure but it sounds as though the term "immobile" may be adding to the confusion. First lets clear up that term, then go back to the original question.

First, iron is very much available via the substrate and taken in directly through the root system. Secondly, essentially immobile refers to the plant not being able to "relocate" or move that mineral element. Iron for example is immobile. Once the plant "takes in" iron and transports it the the leaf it becomes immobile. New leaves on plants in water without available iron won't get the benefit of the plant being able to move the immobile mineral element (iron in this example) to the new leaves and a deficiency becomes apparent in the new growth even though pleny of iron is present in other older leaves. This won't occur with mobile elements such as nitrogen. If the plant has stored amounts of nitrogen it can freely move the nitrogen to new leaves...this may continue to occur until the plants "relocates" too much nitrogen from the older leaves to the new leaves and the nitrogen deficiency would show in the older leaves. So the term immobile refers to the plants ability to move the nutrient internally.

There are several theories as to why some plants appear to be heavy feeders. One is that of nutrient pressures and its effect on the rate of uptake. Meaning, the lower the concentration of NO3 in the water the greater the chance the plant is able to strip the Prandtl layer of nutrients before the needs of the plant are meet. Three options exist to overcome this from happening. One is to increase the concentration of NO3 in the water column thereby increasing the pressure and satisfying the plants needs before the Prandtl layer is stripped. Second option is to supplement the substrate with nutrients. The problem with the second option is one of control, you can precisely control how much you add and when you add to the water column, but the same can't be done via the substrate. From my point of view and experience, the only mineral element that is beneficial to add to the substrate is iron. It's likely that more iron is taken in via the roots and iron is more readily available from the substrate. Iron is constantlyl being reduce in the anaerobic areas (root zone) of the substrate to make iron available to the plants. Constant additions of iron to the water column do precipitate and fall to the substrate where eventually these processes will make iron available again but it seems logical to me that adding iron directly to the substrate is a better and faster approach with less potential problems than dosing the water column heavily with iron. The third option is rapid circulation, nature often has this option in place. There are a couple other reasons/theories as to why some plants seem to grow better with substrate fertilization...meaning any plant with a heavy root system, or marsh plants that in nature will spend a large portion of their life emerged rather than submersed like we keep them. But, a complete and thorough answer would be beyond the scope of a simple forum response. It's my belief based on my aquatic growing experience that rooted plants such as swords and crypts are easier to grow for most people if they supplement iron in the root zone area of the substrate for those plants, but always take care of the nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus needs via the water column combined with a comprehensive micronutrient provider to the water column.
 
I see where you are coming from a loved the posts. I also understand that we are using iron as an example but iron is not the only immobile element a plant uses, but is usually the one most tank about when dealing with a nutrient rich substrate. We use calcified clay for this reason as well as it has a high cec. Is it easier for people to grow because it is less hands on requiring less work for a typical "low light plant" (crypts). Its easy to stick a root tab in than dose the water column everyday.
 
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