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Old 04-03-2007, 07:46 AM   #1
kaz
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help me choose exaclty what I need for full planted tank plz

I have a 75g with Dual Satellite 48"
48" 4x65watt SunPaq with Lunar Light and fan
Eco-Complete
None Co2

my question is what exaclty do I need to order from Gregg Watson Fertz,
something came up and I cant purchase a full co2 system at this time but will in near future. Should I go with a DIY Co2 system? or the Hagen System? should I keep dosing Excel? help with guidens thanks
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75g/Rena Xp3/Inline Heater/Rena Air 200/Eco-Complete/Current Dual Daylight System
6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
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Argentine Sword, Amazon Sword, Micro Sword, Xmas Moss, Pennywort, Hornwort, Jave Fern, Baby Tears, Moneywort, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Giant Bacoba, Hygro 'Sunset'
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Old 04-03-2007, 09:53 AM   #2
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Excel in a 75 gal is not very practical money-wise. In a short time, you will invest as much in Excel as you would in a CO2 system. For the short term, Excel is a good source of CO2, but a DIY would be less expensive IMHO, but more difficult to keep the appropriate CO2 levels. But the good thing is that it CAN be done!

From Greg, I ordered:

KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4
CSM+B

1 pound of each should last you close to a year or more depending on the amount you need to add.
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Old 04-03-2007, 09:57 AM   #3
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You have quite a lot of light to not be running some kind of co2. In fact your setup probably requires lots of co2. I have never gone the diy route with co2 but I have read where many members have had great results with it.

I would say that at the very least keep feeding excel, even if you start up a diy system.

A more likely solution might be to cut down the amount of light until you get your co2 under control or you may lose the algae battle before you get started.

I'm not sure what a Hagen system costs, but you can pickup a regulator/solenoid/needle valve/bubble counter combo on ebay for under 80.00. A 10lb tank is about the same cost locally. I honestly have not gone the route of a controller just yet. I can see only a slight need for one and if you keep an eye on things you really don't need it at all. Run your co2 off of the same timer your lights are on if you have one.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:38 AM   #4
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I'm going to second the recommendation of cutting back on your lighting until you can afford to get a Pressurized CO2 Setup going. If you run just half of your lighting for the time being you should be fine without it. This will allow you to save up your money more quickly since you won't be spending it on half measures in the mean time.
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:02 PM   #5
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Agreed. That fixture should allow you to only turn on half of the lighting. I'd start there. 2x65W over a 75g tank will grow many plants just fine without the need for CO2 until you're able to provide a system for the tank.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:06 PM   #6
kaz
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thanks guys I didnt know that fixture had seperate on switches or cables to turn on half the lights if so I will only run 2x65w.

nutrafin hegen co2 system is a small diy like system that around here it cost about 14.99
http://www.petmountain.com/product/c...nt-system.html

and will last for about three months at a time. the question then is I get 2 of these and maybe a powerjet with a diy reactor would this be good?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...9&N=2004+22788

for fertz I dont need this one?
PMDD Pre-Mix
btw I'm not up to speed with the abbreviations can you specify plz
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75g/Rena Xp3/Inline Heater/Rena Air 200/Eco-Complete/Current Dual Daylight System
6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
Plants
Argentine Sword, Amazon Sword, Micro Sword, Xmas Moss, Pennywort, Hornwort, Jave Fern, Baby Tears, Moneywort, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Giant Bacoba, Hygro 'Sunset'
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:17 PM   #7
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I highly recommend that you not waste your money on the Hagen System. You'd need about 15 of them on your tank to have any chance of getting 30ppm of CO2 in a 75 gallon aquarium. Each unit is only rated for a 20 gallon tank, but that's with much lower CO2 levels than most of us shoot for. The money spent on these would be better saved for a Pressurized CO2 System.

I would recommend getting the following fertilizers:
KNO3 - Potassium Nitrate (for dosing Nitrates and some Potassium)
KH2PO4 - Mono Potassium Phosphate (for dosing Phosphates)
K2SO2 - Potassium Sulfate (for dosing Potassium)
CSM+B - Trace Fertilizer
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Old 04-04-2007, 02:56 AM   #8
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ok this is what I've ordered:

Product(s) in cart
1 CSM+B Plantex
1 Mono Potassium Phosphate
1 Potassium Nitrate
1 Potassium Sulfate

good to go right
question if I keep my lighting at 2wpg and dose some of this stuff without co2 for the time being should that plants grow or die?

I am also battling with BBA at this time so I'm asking how will any of this future setup more lighting and fertz help to kill this bba ?
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75g/Rena Xp3/Inline Heater/Rena Air 200/Eco-Complete/Current Dual Daylight System
6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
Plants
Argentine Sword, Amazon Sword, Micro Sword, Xmas Moss, Pennywort, Hornwort, Jave Fern, Baby Tears, Moneywort, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Giant Bacoba, Hygro 'Sunset'
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:11 AM   #9
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Those are the ferts you'll need. Without CO2 you'll probably only need to dose the Trace and Potassium about once a week. Keep an eye on your Nitrate and Phosphate levels, and start dosing if they start to bottom out.

As long as you've chosen appropriate plants for your setup they should do fine with that amount of light and minimal fert dosing.

What's your water change routine? When not injecting CO2 it's actually recommended that you perform less frequent waterchanges. Reason being that the fluctuations caused by the CO2 levels in the tap will often induce BBA. For those that really like doing large weekly water changes, it's advisable to gas off the CO2 before adding it to the tank to avoid this issue.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:20 PM   #10
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i do up to 50% every weekend. the reason why is because I do not have enough plants that bottom out my nitrates. but I will so maybe less is better but how do you keep good quality water in your tank without changes? instead of changing water just do filter cleaning? I clean my filter like every 2 week and I notice around ten days of not cleaning my tank starts to grow green algae and some diatoms

What are my mesurements of Nitrats, Potassium, phosphate and sulfate need to be once I do start?
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I thank you all for your attention and time!
75g/Rena Xp3/Inline Heater/Rena Air 200/Eco-Complete/Current Dual Daylight System
6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
Plants
Argentine Sword, Amazon Sword, Micro Sword, Xmas Moss, Pennywort, Hornwort, Jave Fern, Baby Tears, Moneywort, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Giant Bacoba, Hygro 'Sunset'
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:54 PM   #11
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In that case it would probably be best to either add more plants or to gas off the CO2 from the tap water before adding it to your tank. Although the symptoms you're describing sound like you might be bottoming out some nutrients other than Nitrates.

There are lots of different dosing routines, and you need to decide on the one that works best for you. Taking the time to read the fert sticky would be a good place to start. Basically you want to ensure that your nutrients don't bottom out. Beyond that it depends on what method works best with your maintenance style.
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Old 04-04-2007, 06:30 PM   #12
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will from what I read if i go with EI that means I have to change water every week but everyone is saying not to because of co2 levels, if I need to gas out co2 from water before hand that means I need five ten gallon buckets to have on stand by which is a bit to much of space etc in my house, this is why its heard for me to control gas out system, in the other hand what is the use of a phython if not to use for what it is made? only to suck but not drop back-in. I will go to the sticky once again and see what i discover thanks for the help everyone has been providing, I also just bought pinch dash etc measureing spoons.
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I thank you all for your attention and time!
75g/Rena Xp3/Inline Heater/Rena Air 200/Eco-Complete/Current Dual Daylight System
6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
Plants
Argentine Sword, Amazon Sword, Micro Sword, Xmas Moss, Pennywort, Hornwort, Jave Fern, Baby Tears, Moneywort, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Giant Bacoba, Hygro 'Sunset'
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Old 04-05-2007, 09:53 AM   #13
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There is more than one version of Estimative Index, and it sounds like you're reading up on the version that was developed for High Light and CO2. There is a simplified version that is more appropriate for your current setup. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that this thread might be the one you need.
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Old 04-05-2007, 05:41 PM   #14
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thank you, I have read this, I have a question it says balance with fish load, how would you calculate the balance? keeping the water quality good just means keeping the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates down? as long as there is no algae and no ammonia/nitrite and a little nitrate though a month period this is ok?
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I thank you all for your attention and time!
75g/Rena Xp3/Inline Heater/Rena Air 200/Eco-Complete/Current Dual Daylight System
6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
Plants
Argentine Sword, Amazon Sword, Micro Sword, Xmas Moss, Pennywort, Hornwort, Jave Fern, Baby Tears, Moneywort, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Giant Bacoba, Hygro 'Sunset'
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Old 04-05-2007, 07:59 PM   #15
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I used that method when I first set up my tank. It is not a balance that is measurable per se. You will have to experiment with your water changes. I found that I could maintain a level of 5ppm nitrate by having the maximum bio-load for the tank, having a relatively equal amount of plant mass and changing my water every two weeks. Any increase or decrease in your bio-load or plant mass will alter everything very quickly (as I found out when I started jamming a ton of nutrient hogs into mine). I also kept an airstone running 24/7 which helped keep the CO2 levels constant.

HTH.
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Old 04-06-2007, 01:06 AM   #16
kaz
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would a nice lime airstone be good?
my load of fish is what I have plus i plan on one more yoyo, six darf rainbows and 4 bosamini rainboows, possible some germans and bolivian rams too
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75g/Rena Xp3/Inline Heater/Rena Air 200/Eco-Complete/Current Dual Daylight System
6 Rummy Nose, 9 Ottos, 2 Yoyo Loach, 1 Golden Nugget Pleco, 2 Julli's Cory, 4 Angelicus Botia, 1 Chocolate Kuhli Loach, 3 Ghost Shrimp, 1 SAE, 1 Black Mollie, 1 Redeye Swordtail Mollie, 1 C-Pleco, MTS, Guppy's
Plants
Argentine Sword, Amazon Sword, Micro Sword, Xmas Moss, Pennywort, Hornwort, Jave Fern, Baby Tears, Moneywort, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Giant Bacoba, Hygro 'Sunset'
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