How to ensure complete fertilization?

[trennamw]

I'm at that point in my research where I've got too much info and can't quite sort it out.

So there's micros and macros, and root feeders and water column feeders right?

Do you pretty much always have to use both root tabs and water column feeding?

Does using Seachem Equilibrium in the water cover micros for both the root and water coulmn feeders?

Why doesn't dosing just the water column feed the root feeders, since the water goes down into the substrate?

If you let nitrates hover around 20 ppm why do you need to add N and not just PK?

I was just reading Mebbids thread on DIY root tabs, which was great, but I'm also confused at the note that seachem root tabs provide micros but not macros.

I have a low light tank and wanted to use Tom Barr's method of dosing just Equilibrium for micros, plus KNO3 and KH2PO4, and Excel. But then since I have sand do I also have to use root tabs for the crypts, and if so is it going to have to be of the Osmocote variety with high NPK and not Flourish tabs?


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[Fresh2o]

I'm at that point in my research where I've got too much info and can't quite sort it out.

So there's micros and macros, and root feeders and water column feeders right?

Do you pretty much always have to use both root tabs and water column feeding?

Does using Seachem Equilibrium in the water cover micros for both the root and water coulmn feeders?

Why doesn't dosing just the water column feed the root feeders, since the water goes down into the substrate?

If you let nitrates hover around 20 ppm why do you need to add N and not just PK?

I was just reading Mebbids thread on DIY root tabs, which was great, but I'm also confused at the note that seachem root tabs provide micros but not macros.

I have a low light tank and wanted to use Tom Barr's method of dosing just Equilibrium for micros, plus KNO3 and KH2PO4, and Excel. But then since I have sand do I also have to use root tabs for the crypts, and if so is it going to have to be of the Osmocote variety with high NPK and not Flourish tabs?


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Can't answer all but I'll try some.
1. IMO there are root feeders and water column feeders (the macro and micro ferts)
2. Not necessarily. Stem plants don't always need root fertilization. Crypts don't need water column ferts (in lower lighting).
3. Idk
4. I think roots need a more concentrated level of ferts
5. If the nitrate is at 20 ppm, then there is no need to dose KNO3
6. Idk
7. Idk


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[trennamw]

Thanks!! Just knowing there's no need for KNO3 if nitrates are at 20 helps a lot.

Is it better to get nitrates down to 0 ish and then dose? Or is that just silly.




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[Sk3lly]

Thanks!! Just knowing there's no need for KNO3 if nitrates are at 20 helps a lot.

Is it better to get nitrates down to 0 ish and then dose? Or is that just silly.




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Just silly. If your at 20ppm then leave be and stop dosing N. I've not dosed nitrate at all since i made the switch to dry ferts


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[trennamw]

So just Equilibrium, KH2PO4, Excel, and some root tabs under the root feeders? For a lower light lower tech situation ...




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[evil Nick]

good question, is there a good list of root feeders vs column feeders?

 

[trennamw]

good question, is there a good list of root feeders vs column feeders?

Probably somewhere. My understanding so far is that crypts and swords are heavy root feeders, stem plants not so much. So far the pattern I see is, if it has a lot of roots that you bury, add root tabs.


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[Coursair]

With water column ferts you dose daily to weekly depending on your regimen.

Root Tabs are super easy because you only replace them about every four months so don't stress about the root tabs [emoji106]


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[evil Nick]

With water column ferts you dose daily to weekly depending on your regimen.

Root Tabs are super easy because you only replace them about every four months so don't stress about the root tabs [emoji106]


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do the root tabs dissolve and feed column feeders as well?
I here from other sites they can turn your water blue green

 

[Fresh2o]

They eventually dissolve but being in the substrate they should not leach into the water column (keep them buried). While moving things around it is not uncommon to lift them up (I had some clinging to some plants I recently pulled out). Regular water changes should help keep imbalances like that in check.


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[Coursair]

do the root tabs dissolve and feed column feeders as well?

I here from other sites they can turn your water blue green

No, you still need either liquid or dry ferts for your other plants.

If root tabs are turning your water colors, you are doing it wrong. Either not buried deep enough or using large gravel that doesn't keep the ferts from coming up or ???

I'm using Root Tabs in 5g and 10g tanks. Under sand and normal small gravel. They work great for me. I have a lot of Crypts as well as some Swords.

Stop stressing about the Ferts are you worried about cost or just that you haven't used them before ??

Here is an old vid, my first truly planted tank...
http://youtu.be/aptmdICahvM


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[jetajockey]

I don't think there needs to be much of a distinction between column and root feeders, most plants do both. They seem to uptake nutrients easier by the leaf (similar to foliar feeding in terrestrial plants), but can get ferts either method. I prefer doing both, since I am not a religious doser, but a nice planted tank can be had with column fertilization alone.

That said, I've seen some plants really take off when soil or good root tabs are introduced. Whether the plant was lacking in something, or just had more resources to work with, they definitely seem to help. So I lean towards a combination of both for good measure.

 

[aqua_chem]

So there's micros and macros, and root feeders and water column feeders right?

Micros and macros, yes (although definitions do vary at times). Root feeds vs column feeds is slightly more complicated. For sure, there are plants that prefer nutrients in one or the other. However, the reality is that it's a spectrum between the two options. Most plants will prefer one or the other, but are entirely capable of 'crossing over', eg stem plants that get nutrients from the substrate and crypts that get nutrients from the water. This makes the definition much less useful that some hold it to be.

Do you pretty much always have to use both root tabs and water column feeding?

As above. Some plants will benefit more from roots vs column, but I hold that a well rounded approach is best. Really though, root ferts are super simple to provide, so it's often easy to take this approach.

Does using Seachem Equilibrium in the water cover micros for both the root and water coulmn feeders?

Equilibrium is not really designed to be a fertilizer; rather, it should be used to replace mineral content in RODI water. something like Seachem Complete would be better for this purpose.

Why doesn't dosing just the water column feed the root feeders, since the water goes down into the substrate?

It does, but the question is how fast. Do nutrients get into the substrate fast enough to replace uptake by roots? Remember that there's minimal current in the substrate itself.

If you let nitrates hover around 20 ppm why do you need to add N and not just PK?

You don't really. The problem is that the odds of you being in perfect equilibrium, that is to say that fish output equals plant uptake, are long. This depends heavily on CO2 and light input, but as a rule of thumb, if you don't have CO2/light, fish will put more in, and if you do have CO2/light, plants will win. This is a pretty rough rule, but it works ok as a first approximation.

I was just reading Mebbids thread on DIY root tabs, which was great, but I'm also confused at the note that seachem root tabs provide micros but not macros.

Seachem root tabs are mostly target at beginner level aquariums that would have plenty of macros supplied by the fish already in the tank. They're not meant for tanks that would need the additional macros.

I have a low light tank and wanted to use Tom Barr's method of dosing just Equilibrium for micros, plus KNO3 and KH2PO4, and Excel. But then since I have sand do I also have to use root tabs for the crypts, and if so is it going to have to be of the Osmocote variety with high NPK and not Flourish tabs?

As above regarding Equilibrium. But I'm not sure how this is a 'Tom Barr' method. Seems like pretty basic fish keeping to me. Also regarding osmocote, make sure you use one of the varieties that has micros. I think the normal osmocote just has macros. Make sure you check the ingredients for other macros, eg, magnesium, manganese, chelated iron, boron, etc.

 

[trennamw]

Stop stressing about the Ferts are you worried about cost or just that you haven't used them before ??

I haven't used them before, and the plants in my tank are all suddenly going haywire. And I'm confused because there's so much on the shelf and so many opinions on what to use.

I used to have a few crypts, java fern, and anubias in a very low light tank, and I basically did nothing and they were fine if slow growing.

As of August there's more light, and root tabs, led to things growing more. Then I got some plants and essentially increased plant volume four times or more.

I've got a small dusting of algae, so I started using liquid Co2 stuff last week. And I started seeing things that pointed to K deficiency so I started using leaf zone this week.

And every time I look in the tank another plant is being weird.


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[trennamw]

And in response to aqua_chem (thank you) ...

My tap water is basically distilled, hardness is below 0.1 degrees. So I use Equlibrium and cichlid buffer to get KH And GH To 4.

On Tom Barr's website, the method he posted that appeals to me the most (wanting a simpler than EI but not fert-free "Walstad" tank, with lower light), was Equilibrium, and the two dry ferts weekly. With higher doses of the dry ferts of using excel. He argues that Equilibrium is enough for micros. Since I get it anyway and it's a low tech lower light tank can't I just use that?

The distinction on nitrates from fish or from ferts makes a lot of sense thanks.


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