New Water = New Problem

[JDogg]

well some of you may have noticed that my current project is a Nano Reef, but that does not mean i have stooped maintaining my 75 gal planted tank.

i unfortunately am noticing a problem a problem, so i come to my AA friend to get some advice/suggestions

one of the x-mas presents we got from my in-laws was a water softener, as our water was liquid rock. so i have been for about the last two months doing small pwc to my tanks to adjust them to the new water,the fish are doing fine, but i am noticing a couple problems with my plants... in particular my stargrass is growing kinda "stringy" and the tips curl and are small.

here are the params i know you will want
out of the faucet...
Ammonia/Nitrate/Nitrite = 0
PH=6.8-7.0
KH= 14-15 degrees (was dark blue up to 13, turned lighter blue at 14 and then yellow on 15)
GH= can't tell (some place between 1 and 13 it turned from orange to green, but it was such a smooth transition i could not tell

in the tank (just did a pwc)
PH=7.0-7.2
KH= 14 degrees
GH= 3 i think see above...

plus i dose (per week) KNO3 (2.5 tsp), KSO4 (1 tsp), KH2PO4 (1/4 tsp), CSM+B (3/4 tsp) and flourish trace... plus CO2

4x 32 watt T8 Bulbs (may need to be updates as they are ~ a year old

i am guessing that the problem is my GH. do you agree? Mg maybe? what is a good way to get that up.

anyways, TIA

 

[travis simonson]

Curling leaf tips can be a sign of Ca/Mg deficiency. You can try dosing magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) and maybe some calcium sulfate to see if they remedy the problem (about 1 TSP of each per week for a 75G tank), but first I would get a second opinion on your KH test results. You might try a different GH test too, so that you can get a better idea of your true GH.

pH normally rises in relation to KH but your water is not showing that relationship. I buffer my KH to around 12-14 dKH for my African cichlids by dosing sodium bicarbonate, which also raises my pH proportionally to ~8.2 pH. Your KH is in the same range as mine (according to your test kit) but your pH is only ~7.0. This seems quite low for water with such a high KH. While it is possible to have a 7.0 pH and a 15 dKH, it would be very uncommon. At the very least it won't hurt to double-check your test results.

 

[JDogg]

Curling leaf tips can be a sign of Ca/Mg deficiency. You can try dosing magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) and maybe some calcium sulfate to see if they remedy the problem (about 1 TSP of each per week for a 75G tank), but first I would get a second opinion on your KH test results. You might try a different GH test too, so that you can get a better idea of your true GH.

pH normally rises in relation to KH but your water is not showing that relationship. I buffer my KH to around 12-14 dKH for my African cichlids by dosing sodium bicarbonate, which also raises my pH proportionally to ~8.2 pH. Your KH is in the same range as mine (according to your test kit) but your pH is only ~7.0. This seems quite low for water with such a high KH. While it is possible to have a 7.0 pH and a 15 dKH, it would be very uncommon. At the very least it won't hurt to double-check your test results.

i have to swing by the lfs today anywas to pick up a couple things for my nano project. i will try to pick up a new kh/gh kit, different kind if they have one, otherwise justa new one (the AP one i have is over a year old, i do not know how long they last).

is there an easy, common sourse for calcium sulfate, like the epsom salts or do i need to order it?

thanks!

 

[JDogg]

later in the day...

also keep in mind that i am injecting CO2, that is going to lower my PH without effecting the KH, even before changing my water i was getting a PH of 7 or less with a high KH and GH, when it was coming out of the tap with a ph of 8.0...

anyways picked up a brand new kh/gk kit....

in the tank tonight (24 hours after pwc)
KH=15 degrees
GH= 12 degrees (color change was very clear this time) i was geting a GH of 23 degrees before softener... :?
PH = 7.2 (which means i at the moment have 28.4 ppm CO2, time to change out the bottle)

 

[travis simonson]

OK, this is making sense now. From your first post I assumed that your pH was 6.8-7.0 "out of the faucet", but 8.0 makes sense. You have rift lake water on tap A shame you don't keep African cichlids because they would love your supply.

With a GH of 13 you likely have all of the Ca/Mg you need (and probably a deal more) although it is possible that one or the other is overabundant. If you have an LFS that can test your water for calcium and magnesium (reef shops usually have these tests on hand) you might ask them to do so. Ideal Ca/Mg levels are 10-20 ppm Ca and 3-5 ppm Mg. As long as neither is below 1 ppm you're usually doing OK.

Stargrass should tolerate GH levels all the way up to 15-20 so I doubt hard water is causing your leaf issues. It also appreciates good (15-25 ppm) nitrate levels so you may want to test them just to be sure. Potassium deficiency could also cause these problems, but if you're dosing KNO3 (2.5 TSP) and K2SO4 (1 TSP) weekly you should be just fine.

 

[JDogg]

OK, this is making sense now. From your first post I assumed that your pH was 6.8-7.0 "out of the faucet", but 8.0 makes sense. You have rift lake water on tap A shame you don't keep African cichlids because they would love your supply.

i keep both mbuna nd multis in other tanks

With a GH of 13 you likely have all of the Ca/Mg you need (and probably a deal more) although it is possible that one or the other is overabundant. If you have an LFS that can test your water for calcium and magnesium (reef shops usually have these tests on hand) you might ask them to do so. Ideal Ca/Mg levels are 10-20 ppm Ca and 3-5 ppm Mg. As long as neither is below 1 ppm you're usually doing OK.

Stargrass should tolerate GH levels all the way up to 15-20 so I doubt hard water is causing your leaf issues. It also appreciates good (15-25 ppm) nitrate levels so you may want to test them just to be sure. Potassium deficiency could also cause these problems, but if you're dosing KNO3 (2.5 TSP) and K2SO4 (1 TSP) weekly you should be just fine.

ok

 

[Zezmo]

A water softener does not make water "soft" in teh same way that say an RO/DI system does. It simply exchanges the Cal/Mg for K/Na. The potassium may be a boon for the planted, but the sodium is not.

How it works
The water to be treated passes through a bed of the resin. Negatively-charged resins absorb and bind metal ions, which are positively charged. The resins initially contain univalent hydrogen, sodium or potassium ions, which exchange with divalent calcium and magnesium ions in the water. This exchange eliminates precipitation and soap scum formation. As the water passes through both kinds of resin, the hardness ions replace the hydrogen, sodium or potassium ions which are released into the water. The "harder" the water, the more hydrogen, sodium or potassium ions are released from the resin and into the water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softener

So since the plants show signs of Ca/Mg deficiency, they may well have that (despite the starting hardness of the water). They might also be suffering from excess sodium.

An RO/DI unit would genuinely soften the water. Then mix tap water back in to get the desired Kh/Gh.