Plantex CSM+B Plus Extra Iron or Plantex CSM+B

[tazcrash69]

OK, I'm about to order all my dry ferts from Greg Watson, and want to know if I should get the Plantex CSM+B Plus Extra Iron instead of the plain Plantex CSM+B.
I'm new to dosing with ferts, and want to know about any drawbacks to having:
a) too much Iron
b) too little iron
(Which is worse for algae?)
And what is the easiest way to dose iron if I get the plain.
I don't have an Fe test kit, but I do have hard water if that is an indication of Iron.
Sorry, Also I'll be running aboutr 3 or watts per gallon, flourite, and presurized Co2

Thanks

 

[travis simonson]

IME, it is difficult to adequately dose iron with standard Plantex CSM+B. I've been supplementing mine with chelated iron for about a year now and I've never had any problems. If you've got hard water you may experience even further difficulties supplementing iron as it tends to precipitate out of solution more readily at higher pH levels. I don't think you can go wrong with the Extra Iron formula.

 

[czcz]

I agree with Travis and have been very happy with CSM+B+extra Fe. If you're the experimenting type, pick up chelated iron from Greg too, as its fun to mess with. Under high light I think too little iron is a bigger problem than too much iron, as Fe deficiency can be common, and as long a you keep macros in balance Plantex is hard to overdose. It's three times more than what I feel comfortable dosing, but I read recently that Greg doses to 1ppm Fe from CSM+B with extra iron with no ill effects

Suggest you pick up some fast growing plants as indicators of Fe. I picked up Wisteria some time ago on Travis's recomendation and it's a great indicator: goes yellow with Fe deficiency and recovers quickly once the deficiency is addressed. Check out Travis and Shalu's older tank pics, as I believe both have used it as a carpet under high light, 'case you want to do something cool with it.

 

[travis simonson]

Here's a chart showing the percentage of useful element left in solution over a range of pH values for many elements vital to aquatic life:

You can see that, as you approach 8.0 pH, there is virtually no iron left in solution as almost all of it has precipitated out. This is why you sometimes experience quite a bit of cloudiness immediately after dosing iron.

 

[czcz]

Sweet. How long after dosing was measurement? Have you done experiments with different chelators to measure their effectiveness in keeping Fe available? Thanks.

 

[travis simonson]

I wish I could tell you how long after dosing the measurements were taken but all I've got is this chart from a site I found over a year ago. I can't even remember where I found it.

As far as chelators go I haven't done any empirical testing but I have noticed that Flourish Excel (or one or more of its components) seems to have a beneficial effect in keeping iron in a bio-available state. I noticed accelerated rates of growth for both Glosso and Riccia when I dosed it with my trace/Fe supplement as opposed to dosing trace/Fe by itself. I checked the Seachem website and here is what they say:

Flourish Excel™ also has iron reducing properties which promote the ferrous state of iron (Fe+2), which is more easily utilized by plants than ferric iron (Fe+3).

 

[czcz]

The chart is quite a find -- thank for archiving it.

A while back I mixed Excel and Plantex in one dosing bottle in hopes it would keep Fe available, but there were too many variables to attribute great growth to it (did get great growth though). I'll try this again and post back. I'll make my mix for my current Fe dose (.3ppm) and Excel's recommended dose for my volume.

 

[7Enigma]

That chart is not showing up for me anymore. Can anyone post an updated link to it? or PM me the file (if possible)?

 

[chrism]

I'm not seeing the chart either... just a broken image link icon?

 

[hashbaz]

I don't understand the need to go with CSM+B+Fe. If you need more iron why don't you simply add more of the regular CSM+B?

Is cost the issue? - my high light 75g uses 1$ of CSM+B per year (not including shipping)

Are too many traces a problem?

I guess that if you don't need the extra traces, you don't need to take the time to make extra dosing solution.

 

[czcz]

hashbaz, good points and probably why Greg Watson no longer offers this mix. It was an easy way to get more Iron from a premixed trace. As you know most now agree excess traces are not a problem, and some have argueed the benefits some find with more Fe can be found with more traces as a whole.

 

[hashbaz]

Glad to know I'm not crazy.