Rotala Indica - Roundafilia

[LindaC]

Before I got my pressurized CO2, this plant Rotala Indica used to grow so nice in my 29 gallon tank but lately, these past few months, it just won't grow the way it use to, it's really been looking terrible lately. The leaves more towards the top are very small, there's no color like there used to be. Could this be due to a diffciency in the water suddenly, maybe too much CO2 and not enough of a specific fert?

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I'd really appreciate it. I have two bunches of this plant in my tank, in different areas and both look horrible. For that matter, my Ludwigia, Narrow Leaf, doesn't grow as nice as it used to either but it doesn't look bad like the Rotala.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Linda

 

[czcz]

Some nutrient must be bottoming out. Tank/dosing info? Are you testing? Which deficiencies are the plants showing?

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm
http://www.aquariaplants.com/plantdeficiencies.htm

(We're supposed to make a point about using the proper name R. rotundifolia, as the experts may have ID'd the true R. indica. )

 

[LindaC]

Oh okay, I'm sorry, when I purchased it from FreshWaterAquariumPlants.com that's what it was listed as. I have been testing nutrients and everything seemed to be okay, but I'm sure something is wrong. When upper leaves start growing smaller, is that from lack of a certain nutrient?

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this post, I've been working very long hours lately.

 

[Purrbox]

Actually Rotala Rotundifolia is one of those plants that will look completely different in one person's tank versus another's. When placed in one of my tanks it's leaves got really small like you described. However in my other tank they stay nice and large. I've got a feeling that it may have something to do with the amount of light, since I know that other plants like Hygrophila Difformis will have broad leaves under lower light conditions but the beatifully pinate leaves it's known for under higher light.

Nutrient difficiencies are more likely to cause problems like the plants disitegrating, getting holes, discoloration, etc. Check out the links that czcz provided for a list of difficiencies and their specific symptoms.

 

[GlitcH]

Before I got my pressurized CO2, this plant Rotala Indica used to grow so nice in my 29 gallon tank but lately, these past few months, it just won't grow the way it use to, it's really been looking terrible lately. The leaves more towards the top are very small, there's no color like there used to be. Could this be due to a diffciency in the water suddenly, maybe too much CO2 and not enough of a specific fert?

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I'd really appreciate it. I have two bunches of this plant in my tank, in different areas and both look horrible. For that matter, my Ludwigia, Narrow Leaf, doesn't grow as nice as it used to either but it doesn't look bad like the Rotala.

Thoughts?

Linda

Maybe it's time to replace your bulbs?

 

[LindaC]

Hmm, that's a thought, how quickly do they need to be replaced? I added this system 1x55 watt retro fit from AH Supply, last November, so that would be six months ago, would I need to replace them this soon, I was hoping they'd last at least a year.

Another thing is, the plant grew very nicely under the same lights before I added the pressurized CO2. I will read up on the different difciencies.

I was wondering if I should be adding calcium and magnesium to my tank. I've been dosing 1/4 tsp of K2SO4 2 to 3 times a week, along with 4 drops of Fleet enema and then I test mid week and if I need more, I will add it again. My nitrates are usually taken care of by the food and the fish load, my levels are always between 10 and 20. On alternate days I dose Flourish. I also have CSM+B but not sure how much of that I need and will use the Flourish up until it's gone and then move over to the other. So I either need to up my dosages of K and Flourish or add calcium and magnesium. My GH is 40 so I do have very soft water and that could be affecting my plants.

One more thing, I added 1/2 tsp of baking soda on every water change, which brings my KH up to 70. Will the baking soda affect my CO2 readings and make me think I'm getting more than I really am?

Thanks all, any advice would be greatly appreciated. I believe I am getting closer to getting my tank stabalized. After I do a 50% water change, it usually looks pretty good up until the last couple of days before it's time to do another water change. I change 50% of the water, one a week.

 

[Purrbox]

Since Baking Soda only affects the KH it will not affect your CO2 readings. It's things that affect your pH without changing the KH that you have to worry about.

Any chance of posting some pictures of the affected plants. That would really help in determining what the deficiency is that you are experiencing. If you aren't able to post pictures, it would be helpful if you could be more specific about why you don't think your plants look like they're doing as well. Are they developing holes? Are they turning transparent and melting away? Are they turning brown? Is something else happening? Often the difficency can be pinpointed if we know what the symptoms the plants are showing. Not doing well is a bit too broad.

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

My first thought was a Magnesium deficiency.. If you have soft water (Which I assume you do with a KH being pushed up to 4deg) you may want to add a bit of Epsom salt (MgSO4 - Magnesium Sulfate)..
Magnesium is the nutrient responsible for creating Chlorophyll (Central Molecule, without it, chlorophyll can't be created) and may limit what the plant can take in..

But light is a possibility. Leaves grow to a size required to take in enough light..

CF bulbs don't need to be replaced unless they are burnt out. T8/T12's become spectrum dead after 9-12 months, CF's don't fall victim to this.

 

[LindaC]

Thanks, I can add Epson Salts, I have them here, only a small amount I'm assuming.

Purrbox, the leaves on the rotala aren't colorful and the ones toward the top get very small and some of my other plant leaves are transparent, i.e., the pennywort and the sunset hygro. Now, I did a 50% water change the day before yesterday and added 1/2 tsp of K2SO4 and 4 drops of fleet and the next day my Rotala started to look a lot better, the top leaves are actually a little pink now, but I'm pretty sure that a few days from now, they will start losing color and looking smaller as if they're closing. They always look better right after a water change. Also, all the plants in my tank will start to look as if they're covered in dirt right before my tank is due for a 50% water change, or towards the end of the week.

It's perplexing where the Rotala grew very well at one time under the same lights, which leads me to believe it's not the lights.

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

1tsp would be enough for your tank.

I'ld agree it's not the lights, having enough light to reduce the size of the leaves would indicate some very healthy growth..

I would start looking at microsand try taking it up to 3/4 - 1 tsp of K2SO4.. Better to get the level between 20-25ppm.. the 10-20 would be good for a lower light tank..I'm not familiar with the Fleet dosage, or what 4 drops means.. ideally it should be between 1-2 if your nitrates are at or above 20..

 

[Purrbox]

Are you only dosing your ferts right after a water change? If so I think this is the problem as it sounds like the plants are consuming all the nutrients before the end of the week. Try a second dose mid week.

 

[LindaC]

No, I've been dosing the ferts more than once a week, usually every other day, alternating with Mircos and Macros but I usually lower the amounts as the week goes on, i.e., after a 50% water change on Wednesday night, I dosed 1/2 tsp of K2SO4 and last night (Fri) I only added 1/8 tsp. Would it be okay for me to dose 1/3 tsp every other night, or three nights a week or would that be too much. I seem to notice that right after a 50% water change and dosing the K, the plants appear so much better looking. I thought becuase my lights are a little less than 2 WPG that I didn't have to dose ferts that often and that could be my problem, maybe I do need to dose ferts more.

Wizard, I have no idea how much 4 drops would be, sorry, I am a little lost when it comes to the measurements for Phosphates. I was advised a while back to add 6-8 drops of fleet every other night but that turned out to be way too much for my tank, so I dose Phosphate and test with my Seachem test kit and if the phosphates get low, I add a couple of drops. I know it's not the best way of doing it but until I learn how to figure out the measurements a little better, that's the only way I can do it. I tried working with the Chucks fert calculator but am totally lost, sounds dumb I know, never know I have a college education!

On the Epsom Salts, you say 1 tsp, should that be once a week or can I break it down to 1/2 tsp twice a week? Will it cause algae if I overdose? Thanks for all this help you all are giving me, I am getting closer and I've come so much farther than I was a couple of months ago.

Linda

 

[Purrbox]

Since you are dosing throughout the week, just bump your dosing later it the week slightly. Maybe try 1/2tsp K2SO4 right after the water change and then 1/4tsp on the other dosing days.

Don't feel bad about having problems figuring out Chuck's calculator. It's geared toward dry ferts and helping you figure out how much to use to make a solution or dry dose directly. It isn't really geared towards a preprapared solution. You might be able to make it work for you if you can figure out the concentration of Phosphates your solution.

For the Epsom Salts I would probably dose it in the water change water along with the Baking Soda since it will be affecting the GH.

 

[czcz]

With the phosphates, you can use your plants as indicators to adjust your dosing if you'd rather stay away from the math. This would require reviewing and keeping an eye out for the nutrient deficiencies linked earlier, and becomes much easier after some time observing and using your plants in this way. Doing the math will help in the meantime though.

Since you are getting stunting in new growth, agree its probably a micro, and Mg is as good a place to start as any. Go slow though: Tom Barr often says a little Mg goes a long way. One 1/2tsp dose and another later in the week is good. (Mg will raise GH, and it is said some fish are sensitive to GH changes. But for your plants, it shouldn't matter so much, and many reconsititute GH everytime they do a water change, or just add Mg to their trace mixes to spread it out over the week. Either should work.)

FWIW, I get long colorful leaves from R. rotundifolia under high light and as it gets closer to the surface. I equate it with happiness with that specific plant, though it has been happy with the smaller delicate leaves as well. It also changes for me across setups. HTH

 

[LindaC]

I will watch my plants for dificiences with the Phosphate, so far I think I'm on the right track with that, I no longer get any green spot algea on my tank glass and use to get it all the time. I will also start off dosing the magnesium with my baking soda during my water changes. I think I'm going to start by adding only 1/2 tsp and then if everything looks okay, will add another 1/2 later in the week, but I'd prefer to start off slow where you mentioned that fish are sensitive to GH changes. I can't stress out my fish!

I find that my Rotala R. starts to look a lot better as it get's closer to the light, it starts turning more pink.

I have a digital camera that barely works, so I am going to take spme pictures of my tanks and try to post them here later today. I'll try posting them on this thread. My 10 gallon tank is looking a lot better than my 29 gallon, the plants are growing so much better, with 2 - 15 watt CF screw in bulbs and 1 ml of Excel every other day. I just starting dosing ferts in this tank too but only K and Micros. I do test for nitrates where they bottomed out a couple of weeks ago and created Cyanobacteria in my tank, but since the black out, it's really starting to look nice. Even the Tonia is growng well in this tank! I only hope I can keep it this way!

Thanks again for all the wonderful advice!