Will this increase my light, or be a wash?

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threnjen

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LED research

Edit: I've been doing active research while I write this thread, so please read my responses before responding to my original post, thanks! I've been finding out a lot of interesting things~! After my OP, it changes more to researching LED strip lighting for aquarium application.

I have a 90g tank. Planted with low-mid light plants. I'm not interested in using CO2. I have a sump with an algae scrubber which has a CFL 24hrs/day.

My current lighting setup is as follows:
2-6500k T8
1- Coralife 10000k T8
1 - Coralife 5000k T8
The above in two shop light fixtures.

Then I have some auxiliary lighting that is largely irrelevant to plants - a strip of moon LEDs, and 5 48" strips of Sylania Mosaic which I use as a color corrector, very low light but perfect for correction.

I've been really coveting the very affordable Current USA LED+ which I am sure someone around here has. Do you think that if I swapped out one of my shop light fixtures that this would be a lighting improvement, or would it not do that much? Obviously I could keep whatever 2 of the T8 bulbs I still want to use.

Thanks!
 
I'm also curious if anyone has tried to make anything with the strip LEDs that you can get on Amazon very cheaply. they look similar to the Sylvania Mosaic strips and I am curious if they are higher powered. Several also seem to use the same remote as the Current USA LED+
They all use "SMD 5050 LEDs" which I don't really know what that means.

Example
Another example
Another
You get the idea
OK one more

Edit: The Sylvania Mosaic is 1 LED every 2" so all of these seem to have more. Most of these kits say 300 LEDs in a 16.4 foot reel. The Sylvania Mosaic would be 96 LEDs in 16 feet. So now I am quite curious.
The Mosaic is only 40 lumens per 2 foot strip
 
5050-RGB multi-colored SMD LED.
625nm/520nm/465nm wavelength, up to 2,150mcd.
120 degree viewing angle.
See spectral graph for actual wavelength measurement.

Product Specifications
ColorRGBContinuous
Forward Current3x20
Forward VoltageR:2.0 G:3.2 B:3.2
LED Package5mm x 5mm
LED Type5050 SMD
Lens ColorClear
Millicandela1000mcd
Operating Temperature-20~+80 °CPeak
Forward Current3x100mA
Power Dissapation3x120mW
Reverse Voltage5V
Total Power Consumption0.192 Watts
Viewing Angle120 degree
 
Sylvania Mosaic - 3535 LEDs, only have 150 LEDS per 5m
So these other LED strips I linked should be significantly brighter

Please forgive my thought vomit. I am basically performing research right in my own thread...
 
Satellitefreshwater
xlink3.gif.pagespeed.ic.FSGCPV3pjw.png
LED+ 48" is 2000 lumens

Flexfire LEDs (LED strip lights) 16.4 feet, 4,724 lumens, $159 (300 leds/16.4t)
2,165 lumens with the 150leds/16.4 ft

Even if the Amazon LED strips are way worse than Flexfire, I imagine they could be at least half as good, and produce at least 2000 lumens on a 16.4foot strip. For around $30

I hope that anyone else is getting something out of this research :)
 
The first thing I feel I should point out is that the algae scrubber is unnecessary and probably even detrimental to a planted tank. They pull much needed nutrients out of the water that your plants need.
 
Secondly, I am going to address the light. Had to switch over to my pc to make this easier :)


Lumens are fairly useless in determining how good a light is going to be for you. There are a lot of measurements that aren't taken into account where this is concerned.

Firstly - I would throw the strip lights out of the running. You won't get any sort of penetration when using them and that alone makes them fairly useless for growing plants, especially in a tank the size of yours.

Second - The current USA leds are nice looking and even have decent par values. However, since the par level is taken directly underneath the light it is hard to tell how much actual overage you will get. You are almost guaranteed to need 2 of the fixtures to provide adequate medium level lighting for the whole tank. They will work, I just can't tell you how good they will work in your situation.

If I were in your shoes I would save up some money and go for 1 - 2 build my led fixtures. However those get pricey.
 
I'm getting quite a lot of algae in the main tank though :(

What type of algae? Can you post a picture? How long do you run lights? What ferts are you using? Are you using liquid carbon such as Excel?

Try running lighting only 6 hours daily until algae goes away then slowly increase photoperiod but I suggest no more than 8 hours, and even less if you get algae at those levels.

Your plants also need some type of ferts and using a liquid carbon will not only help plants with photosynthesis and growth but also acts as an algaecide. I would suggest using 1ml of liquid carbon for every 2 gallons of tank water daily.

Since it's a large tank you would want to get Metricide 14 Day Solution which costs about $27 or less shipped for a gallon. You mix it at a 1:1 ratio with RO or Distilled water to get 2 gallons for that price. It's very reasonable to use. Just shop around on line as some places charge up to $40 which is way too high.

As for ferts you should look into dry ferts which are the most economical for a larger tank. Here is some info...

As for dry fert this $15 package is all you need and will last a couple years... http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/micro-macro-fertilizers.html.



You need 3 dosing bottles found at the bottom of this page... http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html.



This is a good thread about dosing PPS-Pro. Only read the opening post not all the comments after it.... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-newbie-guide-pps-pro.html.



There are two things I do different from the article. First I use 3 dosing bottles as I split the macro nutrients for better custom dosing to the needs of the tank. Nitrates in one bottle, phosphates and potassium in one bottle, and micro's in the 3rd bottle. The other thing you'll notice the recipe calls for using MgSO4, magnesium sulfate, which you don't need if you have hard tap water with a Gh and Kh of 4 or higher.
 
I agree with Mebbid with the BMLed. I have have been saving to get my own set. I wouldn't worry about lumens or lux the number that is the most important is the PAR. As far as the algae issues you are having it might actually be the lack of nutrients for the plants that is allowing the algae to get a foot hold. It's a balance of light, nutrients (macro and micro) and carbon. If one is lacking the algae get in and can take over. I found that out the hard way with my own tank. Since I got more and the right nutrients into my tank, I have finally gotten my algae issue under control and almost gone.
 
What type of algae? Can you post a picture?
To be fair, I'm somewhat exaggerating. I'm not overrun with algae, but it is definitely enjoying my tank and building up. I have a lot of brown fuzzy algae on my plant's leaves which is quite unsightly and probably interferes with their photosynthesis.


How long do you run lights?
Admittedly, too long. I only accepted maybe 2 days ago that my hopes are unrealistic and they can't be on for 11 hours straight.
However I did read an article (I wish I could recall the source, it was a few weeks back, argh), which claims that the photosynthesis of plants is unaffected if they take a "siesta" of two hours in the middle of the day, whereas the photosynthesis of algae is severely crippled, and that lights can be run for 10-12 hours total if there is a 2 hour break midday.
I wish I could find my source.
I changed my timers to perform this plan, but it's only been 2 days. However in that 2 days the algae scrubber has begun working because it's now the more desirable location.

I appreciate you're taking a few minutes to think about my algae problem, but I have to admit at its core it's pretty simple - I've been running the lights too long, and I DO know this. This is kind of why I am hoping to try some other things on my tank like the algae scrubber, lights siesta etc in order to promote algae to grow in the sump so that I can still have the lights on in my tank. If I have to cut back to hours, I guess I can, but honestly I won't be happy about it. Are there other avenues to explore first?

What ferts are you using? Are you using liquid carbon such as Excel?
Dry fert macro/micro nutrients mix from aquariumfertilizer.com, in the minimum daily dosage. I'm not sure how much I can safely dose up to, I need to look at the FAQ again. I assume this is very similar to the dry fert macro/micro mix you linked further in your reply.
Also root tabs under some of the plants
I don't have any Excel, but I happened to order some yesterday.

Try running lighting only 6 hours daily until algae goes away then slowly increase photoperiod but I suggest no more than 8 hours, and even less if you get algae at those levels.
I can do that. I was just hoping the algae scrubber would let me keep the lights on longer.
Question for you guys -you mention the algae scrubber will steal the plants' nutrients, but if I have excess nitrates and dose enough ferts, aren't there plenty of nutrients?

Your plants also need some type of ferts and using a liquid carbon will not only help plants with photosynthesis and growth but also acts as an algaecide. I would suggest using 1ml of liquid carbon for every 2 gallons of tank water daily.
Thank you, I'll begin dosing that as soon as it arrives on Wednesday

Since it's a large tank you would want to get Metricide 14 Day Solution which costs about $27 or less shipped for a gallon. You mix it at a 1:1 ratio with RO or Distilled water to get 2 gallons for that price. It's very reasonable to use. Just shop around on line as some places charge up to $40 which is way too high.
Thank you, is this the same as Excel?

As for ferts you should look into dry ferts which are the most economical for a larger tank. Here is some info...

You need 3 dosing bottles found at the bottom of this page... http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html.
Oh man. I need some of those.
Right now I mixed my ferts in distilled water in a jar but it looks like it's growing bacteria. Way to use a clear jar, me...



This is a good thread about dosing PPS-Pro. Only read the opening post not all the comments after it.... http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-newbie-guide-pps-pro.html.
Excellent, thank you. I have heard this method mentioned but never looked into it.


There are two things I do different from the article. First I use 3 dosing bottles as I split the macro nutrients for better custom dosing to the needs of the tank. Nitrates in one bottle, phosphates and potassium in one bottle, and micro's in the 3rd bottle. The other thing you'll notice the recipe calls for using MgSO4, magnesium sulfate, which you don't need if you have hard tap water with a Gh and Kh of 4 or higher.
Ah I see. I will have to look more closely at what is already included in my macro/micro nutrient mix from aquariumfertilizer.com. I have exceptionally soft tap water with no kH, so it sounds like I might also need magnesium sulfate as a supplement if my fertilizer doesn't include this already.

Rivercats you are wonderful, thank you so much for the detailed reply and instructions. I've attached a picture of the algae growing on my plants. Although, the simplest way to be rid of this will be to decrease my lighting, so currently my own stubborness is in the way.

Yhu1cTi.jpg
 
Lumens are fairly useless in determining how good a light is going to be for you. There are a lot of measurements that aren't taken into account where this is concerned.

Firstly - I would throw the strip lights out of the running. You won't get any sort of penetration when using them and that alone makes them fairly useless for growing plants, especially in a tank the size of yours.

Second - The current USA leds are nice looking and even have decent par values. However, since the par level is taken directly underneath the light it is hard to tell how much actual overage you will get. You are almost guaranteed to need 2 of the fixtures to provide adequate medium level lighting for the whole tank. They will work, I just can't tell you how good they will work in your situation.

If I were in your shoes I would save up some money and go for 1 - 2 build my led fixtures. However those get pricey.

Darn. It seemed so much fun! I love it when I can achieve something amazing via DIY.
 
I agree with Mebbid with the BMLed. I have have been saving to get my own set. I wouldn't worry about lumens or lux the number that is the most important is the PAR. As far as the algae issues you are having it might actually be the lack of nutrients for the plants that is allowing the algae to get a foot hold. It's a balance of light, nutrients (macro and micro) and carbon. If one is lacking the algae get in and can take over. I found that out the hard way with my own tank. Since I got more and the right nutrients into my tank, I have finally gotten my algae issue under control and almost gone.
I've looked at those as well (the BMLed), they look very nice.
Interesting theory re: lack of nutrients
I suppose that will simply be trial and error
 
The one macro nutrient that isn't in your current fert mix is Mono Potassium Phosphate. This is a macro nutrient that plants need and I suggest getting some. You can't use it in the mix you use at phosphates can precipitate with iron. Honestly after you finish using your ferts up I'd go to the mix that Greenleaf sells.

What is your Gh? If you have 0 Kh and Gh I would get Seachem's Equilibrium to remineralize your water. It will add back the calcium and magnesium your plants need.

Metricide 14 Day Solution is the same thing as Excel but twice the strength and much much cheaper! You just don't use the activator bottle they send with it.
 
Thanks, rivercats! I got the Fluorish Excel today and did the first dose as directed. I can see how this stuff will get expensive quickly, so good tip about the Metricide.

I have basically 0gH and 0kH in my water supply. We have the softest water in the US, it's pretty insane. Right now I have about a cup of crushed coral in my sump which at least brings me to 2kH.
 
Thanks, rivercats! I got the Fluorish Excel today and did the first dose as directed. I can see how this stuff will get expensive quickly, so good tip about the Metricide.

I have basically 0gH and 0kH in my water supply. We have the softest water in the US, it's pretty insane. Right now I have about a cup of crushed coral in my sump which at least brings me to 2kH.

In planted tanks you aim for a gH and kH of 4 but 3 is okay. You can add a small amount of Epson salt to raise gH if needed.
 
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