The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling

[eco23]

Ok ph down to 6.0. Pwc here I come. So much for wife's mothers day present. Lol.

Wow. Your water apparently has virtually no buffering capability or you're adding vinegar instead of ammonia, lol. Try leaving a glass of your tap water out over night and test the pH in the morning. Let me know how much the pH drops in that time. I'm leaning towards a small bag of crushed coral, but I'm gonna research your issue a bit more.

 

[Cloudrider]

That would explain why it smells like Easter when I dose the ammo up. Lol. Cup of water already setting in window. Will test it tomorrow. As for now, draining tank as I type. Very strange indeed. Was doing fine the 1st 2 1/2 weeks. Don't remember changing anything. Added a big plastic rock the wife wanted. Don't think that had any thing to do with it. Oh well nothing that can't be fixed. hope all the moms have a great day.

Ronnie

 

[eco23]

That would explain why it smells like Easter when I dose the ammo up. Lol. Cup of water already setting in window. Will test it tomorrow. As for now, draining tank as I type. Very strange indeed. Was doing fine the 1st 2 1/2 weeks. Don't remember changing anything. Added a big plastic rock the wife wanted. Don't think that had any thing to do with it. Oh well nothing that can't be fixed. hope all the moms have a great day.

Ronnie

Good deal. Probably what's happening is a combination of 2 things. First as I mentioned the water is probably soft, has very little alkalinity and therefore has very few buffers to the water. If I remember my chemistry correctly, leaving it sitting out for 24 hours will give time for the co2 to gas out (you can also tap the glass a few times in the 24 hours to help it escape) and after that time it should show the actual pH of the water. The second thing that's contributing to the pH drop is the nitrifying bacteria producing acidic waste which continually makes it drop.

If you need to raise the hardness and amount of buffers (which I'd recommend at least during the cycle to prevent crashing) the two real options are crushed coral or baking soda. The baking soda would need to be added with every pwc, so isn't an ideal solution. I'd recommend buying a bag of crushed coral and a mesh bag. Place a handful in the bag and stick it in the filter. As the water goes through it, it will buffer the water, raise the hardness and stabilize pH. Keep in mind the CC is normally used as substrate so chances are you're going to have to buy a giant bag even though you only need a handful. Luckily it's not expensive.

I've actually got a very small bag of crushed coral in my filter because I have very soft water and virtually no alkalinity out of the tap. I didn't have it in there during my cycle and my pH crashed from 7.2 down to 6 overnight when my tank cycled. It set me back a couple days because that drop is a shock to the beneficial bacteria. The CC should prevent this from happening to you.

 

[jmartin71]

Hey Eco what is the name of the site that helps with stock numbers?

 

[eco23]

Hey Eco what is the name of the site that helps with stock numbers?

Aqadvisor. Take it's recommendations with a grain of salt though. Just use it to get a general idea.

 

[jmartin71]

Aqadvisor. Take it's recommendations with a grain of salt though. Just use it to get a general idea.

I know trying to figure out my 26 need something to do while 90 cycles!!

 

[eco23]

Paul! Empty your PM box! It's full and my message won't go through.

 

[Cloudrider]

Ok pwc done. Ph back to about 7. Ammo dosed back to 4. Now let's see what happens. I will look for crushed coral.

Ronnie

 

[eco23]

Ok pwc done. Ph back to about 7. Ammo dosed back to 4. Now let's see what happens. I will look for crushed coral.

Ronnie

Good deal. I'd assume any lfs that has anything related to saltwater would carry it, I got mine from PetSmart. Try really hard to find it, we want to avoid having to use chemicals if at all possible.

 

[royta]

OK, I know I'm getting close, but I thought I'd run the past few days by you.

• Ammonia has been dropping from 6.0-ish to 0 for two 24 hr periods straight.
• Nitrites have stayed the same at 5.0+.
• Nitrates were up to 10 to 20 a couple days prior to ammonia being 100% converted in a 24 hr period, but the last two tests it has been at 0 to 5.0.

Strange that the nitrates seem to have gone backward. I'm using the API kit and am adding 10 drops of bottle 1, capping tube and inverting back and forth. Then I shake bottle two for 30 seconds and add 10 drops to tube. Then shake tube for 60 seconds and then take reading 5 minutes after that. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong on the test.

Any suggestions? 50% PWC maybe?

Did a 60% PWC. Parameters prior to PWC were 0 ammonia, 5.0+ nitrites, and 0 to 5 nitrates. Added 2 ml ammonia after PWC. Ammonia is now at 1.0 to 2.0, which is strange as I thought I'd be closer to 3.0. I'll recheck this evening along with nitrites and nitrates.

6 hours later ammonia is at 0.50 and nitrites are at 2.0. Ammonia is getting gobbled up fast. I added 2ml of ammonia and will check again in the morning.

5/7 3PM
Ammo: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 5.0+ ppm
Nitrate: 0 - 5.0 ppm
60% PWC
added 2 ml ammonia


5/7 9PM
Ammo: 0.50 ppm
Nitrite: 2.0 ppm
added 2 ml ammonia


5/8 6PM
pH: 7.6
Ammo: 0 - 0.25 ppm
Nirtrite: 2.0 - 5.0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 - 5.0 ppm
added 3 ml ammonia
Ammo: 4.0 ppm

 

[Cloudrider]

Good deal. I'd assume any lfs that has anything related to saltwater would carry it, I got mine from PetSmart. Try really hard to find it, we want to avoid having to use chemicals if at all possible.

Yea I'll goto petsmart tomorrow. Just few miles away.

Ronnie

 

[eco23]

5/7 3PM
Ammo: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 5.0+ ppm
Nitrate: 0 - 5.0 ppm
60% PWC
added 2 ml ammonia

5/7 9PM
Ammo: 0.50 ppm
Nitrite: 2.0 ppm
added 2 ml ammonia

5/8 6PM
pH: 7.6
Ammo: 0 - 0.25 ppm
Nirtrite: 2.0 - 5.0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 - 5.0 ppm
added 3 ml ammonia
Ammo: 4.0 ppm

Looks good! Just keep that ammo dosed up and keep up the patience!

 

[rexless]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexless
all i want to know is...

i just seal my 150 tall tank,
i just filled the whole thing up with water
i fish net all the floating particles
i have my 55 gallon hand on filter running right now and have been for 5 hrs straight so far and counting.

do i really need to empty and refill the tank again??
or is it safe to add the gravel and fish??
its not new gravel its the one i currently have in my 55 gallon that all my fishes are in??

someone please help me or give me some advice?? anyone??
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco23
I'm a little confused. You have a 55 gallon that is fully set up and cycled and you're about to add a 150 gallon?

Have you begun to cycle the tank at all (adding ammonia, etc...)? If the tank is not cycled, it is not safe for fish.

I would recommend reading the guide from the beginning and use some of the filter media from the smaller tank to seed the new one.

Am I on track with what is going on?
Did we get you sorted out? Did I understand your question?
**********************************************************


just a update: well i never changed the water, only have my hang on filter from my 55 plus a new 660 marine powerhead, the same 2 old cave i had in my 55 is now in my 150, i only let the water cycle maybe 12-18 hrs before i transfer not all my fish from the 55 but just the big boys that was 5-6 inches and bigger so i have in my 150 now currently!!

4 oscars (1 albino, 1 red, 1 tiger, 1 common)
1 bumble bee
1 red belly pacu
1 jack dempsey 6-7 inches (other one is 3inchs so hes in my 55)
2 managuense 6 inches each

thats it

the rest are in my 55 gallon

and to my surprise i had to put my 1 Zebra tilapia who is about 8-10 inches in my 30 gallon by himself because he very aggressive and tryed to kill all my other fish he was non stop after the oscars and he would of killed him if i didnt switch him, tryed o put him with other fish i had and same results so he by himself

but after putting my fish in the new tank which i didnt change the water they are still alive and doing fine eating goldfish flakes and pallets, so either i was lucky or is not necessary to change the water after u seal a tank



any links to any cheap canister filters for a 150 gallon tall tank??

 

[eco23]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexless
all i want to know is...

i just seal my 150 tall tank,
i just filled the whole thing up with water
i fish net all the floating particles
i have my 55 gallon hand on filter running right now and have been for 5 hrs straight so far and counting.

do i really need to empty and refill the tank again??
or is it safe to add the gravel and fish??
its not new gravel its the one i currently have in my 55 gallon that all my fishes are in??

someone please help me or give me some advice?? anyone??
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco23
I'm a little confused. You have a 55 gallon that is fully set up and cycled and you're about to add a 150 gallon?

Have you begun to cycle the tank at all (adding ammonia, etc...)? If the tank is not cycled, it is not safe for fish.

I would recommend reading the guide from the beginning and use some of the filter media from the smaller tank to seed the new one.

Am I on track with what is going on?
Did we get you sorted out? Did I understand your question?
**********************************************************

just a update: well i never changed the water, only have my hang on filter from my 55 plus a new 660 marine powerhead, the same 2 old cave i had in my 55 is now in my 150, i only let the water cycle maybe 12-18 hrs before i transfer not all my fish from the 55 but just the big boys that was 5-6 inches and bigger so i have in my 150 now currently!!

4 oscars (1 albino, 1 red, 1 tiger, 1 common)
1 bumble bee
1 red belly pacu
1 jack dempsey 6-7 inches (other one is 3inchs so hes in my 55)
2 managuense 6 inches each

thats it

the rest are in my 55 gallon

and to my surprise i had to put my 1 Zebra tilapia who is about 8-10 inches in my 30 gallon by himself because he very aggressive and tryed to kill all my other fish he was non stop after the oscars and he would of killed him if i didnt switch him, tryed o put him with other fish i had and same results so he by himself

but after putting my fish in the new tank which i didnt change the water they are still alive and doing fine eating goldfish flakes and pallets, so either i was lucky or is not necessary to change the water after u seal a tank

any links to any cheap canister filters for a 150 gallon tall tank??

Dude, it usually takes a heck of a lot longer and a lot more work to cycle when you add that many fish to a tank. The ammonia hasn't had a chance to start building up yet, but very soon you might see a serious increase in ammonia levels.

If it's necessary to keep those fish in that tank, it's going to take a lot of perseverance and commitment to keep them alive and prevent them from suffering. So far, things might look okay...but your fish might be in for a nasty surprise in the coming days as they produce waste and the ammo level climbs. I have serious doubts that the HOB will have enough bacteria to completely support a 150 gallon tank stocked that full with such large fish. The other concern would be that if you removed enough filter material from the 55 gallon to actually impact the 150, there's a big potential for a mini cycle to occur in the 55 gallon.

If this is what you've got to do, make sure you have an API master test kit, and test the water parameters (ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte) in BOTH tanks on a daily basis. If the ammonia level rises, you're going to need to do daily 50% pwc's to keep the ammonia level under .25.

Until you know for certain if the seeded filter is working, I strongly suggest you treat this as a fish in cycle for both of your tanks. Check out this article and follow it very closely until you're sure your tank has the amount of beneficial bacteria needed to support your fish.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now-116287.html

 

[ejaramillo01]

Dude, it usually takes a heck of a lot longer and a lot more work to cycle when you add that many fish to a tank. The ammonia hasn't had a chance to start building up yet, but very soon you might see a serious increase in ammonia levels.

If it's necessary to keep those fish in that tank, it's going to take a lot of perseverance and commitment to keep them alive and prevent them from suffering. So far, things might look okay...but your fish might be in for a nasty surprise in the coming days as they produce waste and the ammo level climbs. I have serious doubts that the HOB will have enough bacteria to completely support a 150 gallon tank stocked that full with such large fish. The other concern would be that if you removed enough filter material from the 55 gallon to actually impact the 150, there's a big potential for a mini cycle to occur in the 55 gallon.

If this is what you've got to do, make sure you have an API master test kit, and test the water parameters (ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte) in BOTH tanks on a daily basis. If the ammonia level rises, you're going to need to do daily 50% pwc's to keep the ammonia level under .25.

Until you know for certain if the seeded filter is working, I strongly suggest you treat this as a fish in cycle for both of your tanks. Check out this article and follow it very closely until you're sure your tank has the amount of beneficial bacteria needed to support your fish.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/i-just-learned-about-cycling-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now-116287.html

I have a different opinion, I understand that the OP had all these fish in his 55 gallon tank, and he moved them to his new 150 G tank. If his HOB filter was cycled, and supporting this big bioload in his 55 gallon, why won't be able to support the same bioload now in a 150G tank?

The based my opinion in my experience, and also experience from other posters, if you have a fully cycled tank, where you filter (any type that you have) can handle the bioload of your fish, once you move to a new bigger tank, as long as you don't add more fish (more bioload) the same filter and gravel should be able to handle your new tank. It's just like a massive PWC.

When I moved from a 26G tank to the 100G, I used the same filter, new substrate, I just added Prime, let it run for 10 hours and the I moved all my fish, I did not have any spike o ammonia or nitrites, of course the nitrates are really low.
After a full week, we are still 0 ammonia and nitrites, and now is 10 ppm nitrates.

My two cents

 

[eco23]

I have a different opinion, I understand that the OP had all these fish in his 55 gallon tank, and he moved them to his new 150 G tank. If his HOB filter was cycled, and supporting this big bioload in his 55 gallon, why won't be able to support the same bioload now in a 150G tank?

The based my opinion in my experience, and also experience from other posters, if you have a fully cycled tank, where you filter (any type that you have) can handle the bioload of your fish, once you move to a new bigger tank, as long as you don't add more fish (more bioload) the same filter and gravel should be able to handle your new tank. It's just like a massive PWC.

When I moved from a 26G tank to the 100G, I used the same filter, new substrate, I just added Prime, let it run for 10 hours and the I moved all my fish, I did not have any spike o ammonia or nitrites, of course the nitrates are really low.
After a full week, we are still 0 ammonia and nitrites, and now is 10 ppm nitrates.

My two cents

While in theory that works (pushing it in IMO simply due to the size of the fish and the bio-load), what do you think is going to happen to the 55 gallon still up and running if you actually removed that much bio media to be able to support it?

The normal process of moving a HOB filter onto a new tank to get it up and running instantly, normally applies to setting up QT's and hospital tanks (obviously smaller tanks than the DT). I also assume you didn't have numerous Oscars, Pacu, ect... In a 26 gallon that you're throwing into a new tank with only seeding material.

I have a 10 gallon QT and an HOB filter stashed in my closet, and if I need an emergency QT I can have that thing up and running and cycled in 10 minutes. However, if I pulled a majority of my filter material from my 48 gallon DT, and tried to instantly cycle a 125 gallon...one of two things would happen, eithe the new material wouldn't be sufficient to handle a bioload instantly placed in there...or even more likely its going to mini cycle my smaller DT based off the fact you'd need to remove such a significant amount of seeding material to handle the bioload.

In theory, it makes sense on both of our sides...but erring on the side of caution and preparing for the worse case scenario is the only viable option IMO when it comes to living animals. I don't see particular situation as a way to instantly cycle with filter material, I view it as seeding a new tank to prepare it in time. And no offense to the OP, but based on a few previous posts, I'm not sure the experience level justifies someone telling him to just throw on an old filter and everything will be fine.

 

[Irish.OG87]

After almost a week n half, parameters keep coming up the same...ammonia consistently turns to zero in 24hrs or less, pH bounces around 7.4-7.8ppm normally, NO3 under 20ppm but the big drag is the NO2 which is still between 2-3ppm and is the only thing holding me up in finishing my cycle its getting to the point where im like over the whole deal....

Any ideas where Im at with this cycle...my gf even made the comment if startin all over again wud fix this...do i really wanna start all over again back to scratch?? no not really! but the idea is in the back of my head floating around.

 

[Irish.OG87]

just to add....I have been cycling my tank for almost a month now!!

 

[eco23]

just to add....I have been cycling my tank for almost a month now!!

A month isn't bad. Mine took 20 days and is considered lightning fast even with the small bit of seed I had. You'll hate yourself if you start over...trust me. You're almost done.

 

[eco23]

I thought it'd been a lot longer than that. You're golden bro.