20 gallon long with no brace?

[KreativJustin]

Hello, I was offered a free 20 gallon long aquarium. The previous owner had ruined the top brace with a heat lamp. I was wondering if anyone on here has ever removed the top brace and not had issues with it blowing out. I have to drive a half hour to get it, so if it won't work, I do not want to waste my time.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Aiken Drum]

Do you know what make of aquarium it is? If its a jewel aquarium there are known problems with their bracing, they have always said the braces arent needed, even when the loss of the brace is causing significant distortion when filled. They are now selling replacement braces.

Personal opinion. If a tank comes with a brace, it is meant to be braced. You can DIY a brace with a strip of glass if you cant get a replacement if you feel confident to do a repair.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hello, I was offered a free 20 gallon long aquarium. The previous owner had ruined the top brace with a heat lamp. I was wondering if anyone on here has ever removed the top brace and not had issues with it blowing out. I have to drive a half hour to get it, so if it won't work, I do not want to waste my time.

Thanks in advance!

It's going to depend on what company's tank it is I have over 50 20 longs from various companies ( local and national) that are at least 30 years old and none of them ever came with a brace. Their dimensions are 30" L x 12"W x 12" H. If the one you are looking at is a newer one with thin glass ( because it was a reptile tank and not a fish tank) I'd hesitate.

 

[KreativJustin]

Well my wife is going to pick it up today, and she is giving it to me for free so it might be worth it to take the brace off, put water in it for 2-3 days and see if it holds. eventually I am going to turn it into another sump (I have always wanted a DIY sump) so it will have baffles that will pull it together. If it does not hold water, I am not really out anything but time picking it up. I can also buy a brace online for $10 plus shipping.


https://www.aquariumframeswholesale.com/30-x-12-frame

 

[Andy Sager]

Well my wife is going to pick it up today, and she is giving it to me for free so it might be worth it to take the brace off, put water in it for 2-3 days and see if it holds. eventually I am going to turn it into another sump (I have always wanted a DIY sump) so it will have baffles that will pull it together. If it does not hold water, I am not really out anything but time picking it up. I can also buy a brace online for $10 plus shipping.


https://www.aquariumframeswholesale.com/30-x-12-frame

You keep mentioning "brace" but you are posting about frames. Frames are not braces. Under pressure, the frames will break whereas a brace will not. In the old days, the frames where just 4 pieces of plastic that were glued to the glass. ( I have plenty of tanks like that now of 25-30 gallons. )
The good news is that as a sump, the tank will not be filled all the way to the top so there should be very little pressure on the glass. ( assuming it's not the thin lizard cage glass. Ask if the tank was a lizard cage or a fish tank. )

 

[KreativJustin]

Yeah, sorry, I did not mean the brace like on the center of a 75g. I meant the whole frame itself.. though I have never seen a center brace on a 20 long personally. My wife picked it up this morning, if I have enough time tonight, I will try to remove the frame and measure the thickness of the glass. From the photos that she sent to confirm the LxWxH, it appears that the glass thickness is an 1/8th of an inch (0.125")

I assumed that with the baffles being installed with silicone, that it would be strong enough to keep the long glass pieces from wanting to bow and split at the seams. I honestly may still put a new frame on just to have a project to do with my son, he has gotten into aquariums this year too. They are $10 on the website, and ship from Michigan (couple hours north of me), so if I can get one for under $20, it would be worth it to me.

 

[Andy Sager]

Yeah, sorry, I did not mean the brace like on the center of a 75g. I meant the whole frame itself.. though I have never seen a center brace on a 20 long personally. My wife picked it up this morning, if I have enough time tonight, I will try to remove the frame and measure the thickness of the glass. From the photos that she sent to confirm the LxWxH, it appears that the glass thickness is an 1/8th of an inch (0.125")

I assumed that with the baffles being installed with silicone, that it would be strong enough to keep the long glass pieces from wanting to bow and split at the seams. I honestly may still put a new frame on just to have a project to do with my son, he has gotten into aquariums this year too. They are $10 on the website, and ship from Michigan (couple hours north of me), so if I can get one for under $20, it would be worth it to me.

You don't need to remove the frame to measure. Look from the side where the front glass meets the side glass and measure.
1/8" is thin for a 20 long. Make sure the glass is tempered or stand back when you are filling it ( I suggest you fill it outside first on something solid. )

 

[KreativJustin]

Yeah I did not mean that I have to take it off to measure, but that it would be more accurate bc then I can use calipers She sent me photos to confirm it was a 20g long, and on those photos it looked like it was an 1/8th in thickness.. it was a little hard to tell, but I measured it and it is actually 3/16 (.1875) so it is a little thicker I got too carried away and did not fill it with any water before I started stripping down the top frame. The frame was in terrible shape from a heat lamp, so there was no keeping it on there. I just flat out refuse to spend $100+ on building a new sump and using one with a terribly ugly top frame lol.

Tonight I am going to fill it about 25% and measure it in the center to see how much it bows, and if it does not bow too bad I'll do 50% of water just make sure it wont leak b4 I order my top frame and start on my baffles.

I'll make a post in the build section soon enough so everyone can watch the progress and get their own 2 cents in.

 

[Andy Sager]

Okay, 3/16" glass would not be the typical reptile glass tank so you should be fine. There are many rimless tanks so the tank doesn't need the rim to be safe. ( Just sayin' ) I have 25 gallon breeder tanks ( same dimensions as a 20 long only 6" wider) with no frames with no issues.

 

[KreativJustin]

Ok cool

and actually I could probably do a euro style as well right? Basically silicone some glass or plastic strips on top that go front to back.. then I could put the connectors for the incoming and outgoing on the euro style. I wonder if 1/4 plastic would be enough going across the top or whether I should try some glass.. the plastic would be easier for me to work with.

 

[KreativJustin]

Okay, 3/16" glass would not be the typical reptile glass tank so you should be fine. There are many rimless tanks so the tank doesn't need the rim to be safe. ( Just sayin' ) I have 25 gallon breeder tanks ( same dimensions as a 20 long only 6" wider) with no frames with no issues.

I actually just got an e-mail back from the frame supplier.. and it is bad news..

Hi Justin,Thank you for contacting Over The Edge

Unfortunately we do not manufacture a frame that will fit a tank that size


Regards,
Brandon

 

[Colin_T]

just buy a piece of glass from a glazier and silicon it on.

 

[KreativJustin]

I only know of one person that does it local, I'll reach out to them. You are talking about putting a center brace on right?

 

[Andy Sager]

I only know of one person that does it local, I'll reach out to them. You are talking about putting a center brace on right?

Personally, I think you are going unnecessarily overboard. If the tank does not bow when filled ( outside ), there's no need to add anything. Since you will not be running the tank full as a sump, just use 1 of the separators made of glass and silicone it in should more than suffice. Gluing plastic to glass will not have the same strength as glass to glass ime. On tanks that small, the frames are merely for holding lids and to match the bottom frame or hiding the water line. They really do not serve any structural purpose.

 

[KreativJustin]

Personally, I think you are going unnecessarily overboard. If the tank does not bow when filled ( outside ), there's no need to add anything. Since you will not be running the tank full as a sump, just use 1 of the separators made of glass and silicone it in should more than suffice. Gluing plastic to glass will not have the same strength as glass to glass ime. On tanks that small, the frames are merely for holding lids and to match the bottom frame or hiding the water line. They really do not serve any structural purpose.

I was just reading through other forums about people removing it, and on a brand new tank that the guy removed on one, it started leaking a couple of months later. It was a 20long that he was doing it on, he even added a plastic piece on one end on the inside to do an internal overflow filter system, like an all in one. So that is just my worry lol. I over think everything I do, so you will notice that about me as you read my other posts and whatnot. I am going to be filling it tonight, so I'll go slow and stop about 75% and see if it bows or leaks. When I turn my current pump off, it does get pretty close to the top of my current sump, so this one may do the same thing.. I do have an air hole drilled in my return pump to keep it from sucking all my water out, but it def still pulls at least 4-5 gallons out of my tank when I turn my pump off.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Gluing plastic to glass will not have the same strength as glass to glass ime.

Something i can bring some professional knowledge to. Silicone and glass have a similar molecular make up, such that when silcone and glass are bonded they mesh together kind of like a zip. This creates a much stronger bond than silicone to other materials such as plastic because you are relying on just surface adhesion in this circumstance and not the molecular bond you get between silicone and glass.

This has uses beyond aquariums in construction. Silicone structural glazing is used to clad buildings with sheets of glass silcone bonded together at the edges without the need for a visible frame between the individual panes giving a much cleaner appearance.

 

[Andy Sager]

I was just reading through other forums about people removing it, and on a brand new tank that the guy removed on one, it started leaking a couple of months later. It was a 20long that he was doing it on, he even added a plastic piece on one end on the inside to do an internal overflow filter system, like an all in one. So that is just my worry lol. I over think everything I do, so you will notice that about me as you read my other posts and whatnot. I am going to be filling it tonight, so I'll go slow and stop about 75% and see if it bows or leaks. When I turn my current pump off, it does get pretty close to the top of my current sump, so this one may do the same thing.. I do have an air hole drilled in my return pump to keep it from sucking all my water out, but it def still pulls at least 4-5 gallons out of my tank when I turn my pump off.

There's a trick to never overflowing a sump. Here it is:
Start with an empty sump. Fill the main tank until the water starts to drain into the sump then stop filling. When the water stops draining, fill the sump to the top. Turn on the return pump and when the water is flowing back into the sump, mark the water level on the sump and NEVER fill the sump higher than that line when the pump is running. This way, when the electric goes off, only the water in the drain & fill lines goes back into the sump. If your pump is sucking air, it means your sump is too small and not holding enough water to avoid the air sucking.

As for the person having a leak after removing the frame, that could be from a number of reasons starting with the company that built it to the stand it was sitting on. I'd be willing to bet cash money that the frame not being there had anything to do with the leak. ( It was going to leak anyway. )

 

[KreativJustin]

Originally what I did was get the system running, stop the system, let the tank drain into the sump. Filled the sump up to about 90%, turned the pump on, let it stabilize and marked a "max" line on my sump in sharpie on the outside.

Where I get into a bind every now and then is the "sucking" from the return pump. I use a standard return u-tube that goes over it and has the nozzle that you can adjust direction of flow. I put link in bottom, mine is like it, but not exact one. I drilled a hole in it that is right above the ball part of it to break siphon. When it gets down to that point, sometimes it quickly quits back-drafting, then other times it does not stop so quick and I get a little bit more out of it, and that is when it gets sketchy. I use a 5/8 hose from my pump.

https://www.amazon.com/Multipurpose...sprefix=aquarium+return+nozzle,aps,128&sr=8-3

 

[Andy Sager]

Originally what I did was get the system running, stop the system, let the tank drain into the sump. Filled the sump up to about 90%, turned the pump on, let it stabilize and marked a "max" line on my sump in sharpie on the outside.

Where I get into a bind every now and then is the "sucking" from the return pump. I use a standard return u-tube that goes over it and has the nozzle that you can adjust direction of flow. I put link in bottom, mine is like it, but not exact one. I drilled a hole in it that is right above the ball part of it to break siphon. When it gets down to that point, sometimes it quickly quits back-drafting, then other times it does not stop so quick and I get a little bit more out of it, and that is when it gets sketchy. I use a 5/8 hose from my pump.

https://www.amazon.com/Multipurpose...sprefix=aquarium+return+nozzle,aps,128&sr=8-3

Okay, so use where that siphon break happens as your line on the sump and it won't overflow. ( I prefer the drilled holes in the tanks so this isn't an issue but that's not always possible. :^s ) You can always drill another smaller hole on the same line so that if one hole gets clogged, the other is working. ( You also should get in the habit of checking those holes for algae on a regular basis. )