Fishless cycle - ok I give up

[SkullJug]

Hey all,

One again let me say what a great community this is - I thought I knew a lot about planted tanks but have learnt ALOT in the last few weeks from this forum! (You've all forced me back to the drawing board on a setup that has worked for years.... Maybe it can work better)

What I want to know is this - Do fishless cycles actually work?

I have thought about this a lot and honestly don't think it does. By introducing an ammonium/ammonia source to the tank to get your cycle started you are certainly going to get your bacteria cultures started. However if that is not a constant source of ammonia, the bacteria will all just die off again by the time you put fish in the tank.

The adding pure ammonia method seems to be the worst, unless you added the ammonia regularly. The only problem then is that if you overdose you will have too much bacteria which will die off when you put the fish in, the dead bacteria create ammonia which will cause another spike and another growth of bacteria which will die off and then.............
It would take a while to find the all important biological balance.

The prawn method seems a lot better, but if, as the article says, the prawn is no longer visible by the end of the cycle, then once again you do not have a constant source of ammonia and the bacteria dies off again.

My personal opinion is that cycling with a small number of fish (Your own beloved fish, not some meat that you don't care about as per the article) and gradually add to that, you produce a very smooth, slow introduction of bioload to the tank that keeps pace withe the bacterial growth.

I have always cycled with fish and have NEVER detected ammonia or nitrite in tank (And I dupla test kits so I know they are accurate) I honestly believe that if you detect Ammonia then you have done something wrong.

Disclaimer: I am trying to start a discussion, not an argument. I really respect alot of the people on here, most of who I have heard talk about fishless cycling but I honestly can't see it working, hence my confusion.

Let me know what I've missed and tune in to next weeks topic. "UGFs", the definitive answer.

 

[joannde]

You're correct that you need a constant source of ammonia, which is why you have to keep adding ammonia until 24 hrs before you're ready to add the fish, which then keep up the ammonia release. I dosed ammonia until nitrites started showing then switched to the shrimp.

You can absolutely do a low bio-load cycle with fish, but it takes almost as much restraint and patience as the fishless cycle does. TomK2 wrote an excellent article on this method. Basically you cycle with 1 inch of fish per 5 gallons of water, so yes, I agree it can be done - but takes GREAT restraint - we all know how hard it was when we first started out to keep to that 1 or 2 fish at a time rule

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Yes, there much be a constant source of ammonia, hence the additional dosing. The fishless cycle does work. Many people do it every day. If it didn't work, someone would have mentioned it by now. When cycling a tank you will have ammonia and nitrites, even while doing the low-bioload method. It is just at a lower scale.

 

[JRagg]

The adding pure ammonia method seems to be the worst, unless you added the ammonia regularly. The only problem then is that if you overdose you will have too much bacteria which will die off when you put the fish in, the dead bacteria create ammonia which will cause another spike and another growth of bacteria which will die off and then.............
It would take a while to find the all important biological balance.

I don't think that would really be a problem. If you have an overabundance of bacteria some die off, but they won't all die at the exact same time. That means that yes the dead ones will produce ammonia, but it will be consumed by the ones that are still alive . It should trickle down to the point where bacteria = bioload. Yeah, there may be a little bit of a bacteria equilibrium balance that happens, but they have a really short lifecycle (die and reproduce a lot) as it is so that shouldn't take too long imo.

I will however admit that I'm not 100% sure about this yet since I'm not to that point of my cycle yet, but as long as you keep adding 1-2ppm ammonia it seems to me that everything will keep on moving.

 

[tbonem91]

your points are valid but the conclusion is flawed. saying it doesnt work because the ammonia source goes away ignores the fact that once a tank is cycled, you're supposed to add your fish to it

the rotting shrimp does dissapear, yes and once the ammonia source goes away and your cycle is complete, you add your fish.

for dosing pure ammonia, you're supposed to do it daily in measured doses. There are formulas out there and readily available to tell you exactly how much to dose to achineve a proper concentration to build bacteria.

sure, if you fishless cycle a tank and fail to add fish afterwards, your hard work will be lost... but that seems kinda silly to me - what would be the point in cycling if you werent excited enough to add fish when you finally finished?

 

[TomK2]

Yes, fishless cycling does work. But you are correct, you can cycle with fish humanely, and have a biofilter established without exposing your fish to detectable amounts ammonia or nitrite. The key is to have very few fish, feed sparingly, and be very, very patient. I also have cycled with fish in this manner, it took 42 days. Not for the impatient or overzealous feeders and stockers.

The full diatribe can be found at: http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

It is essentially documentation and proof of the theoryt that you can start with few enough fish, and go slow enough, so that bacterial growth can keep pace with ammonia production and never rise to the AP test kit lower limit of 0.25 ppm.

 

[Elle2]

I just completed my fishless cycle 3 weeks ago. It took 3 weeks (Actually 2 weeks and 6 days but who was counting right... haha). I used shrimp and it was so easy because there were no water changes. I recommend it simply because it went so smoothly and the water parameters in my tank have stayed completely stable with all my additions. I have added up to 6 fish at a time without the slightest change in Ammonia and Nitrite levels- granted they were small fish- but I have made steady and continuous additions which for me was worth the 3 weeks without fish.

I knew I was too lazy to do daily water changes required for cycling with fish and I wasn't that keen on the types of hardy fish required, so I guess a lot depends on personal preference.

But I am definitely here to say that the fishless cycle does work and that in the end I think you will find you end up with a well-stocked tank faster than going with a few fish for the fishless cycle.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

I did a fishless cycle for my 75 gallon tank and have had no problems what so ever with the new fish that I've added. I've been testing every other day since I added the first fish and everything is fine so far. So, going by my personal experience it certainly works.

 

[sith j]

the fishless cycle does work, it took my 75 gal 14 days. the beauty of it is, because you can keep toxic levels of ammonia and nitrites and by the end of the cycle your tank will have enough bacteria in it to handle almost anything you throw at it as far as bioload. you just have to test the water every day and add ammonia accordingly. thats a lot better than testing water and also doing water changes. the toughest part of this hobby is PATIENCE