New (8 wks) 10G Tank - Keeps getting cloudy and Nitrites too high

[flipture]

Hello! This is my first post here, and my first tank, so bear with me!

I got this tank about 8 weeks ago, set it up, brought the water a few days later to the pet store, and came home with 4 neon tetras.

Problems: Water is a bit cloudy, one of the tetras almost always hides under a little mountain rock, nitrites read in the caution levels most of the time.

My goal: To get the tank to look clear and for nitrites to go down to 0

What I've done: I cleaned it every 2 weeks or so (vacuumed) doing a 50% water change and getting anything out of the rocks from the bottom that I could. I add water and condition it before putting it back into the tank. I make sure the temp is the same as the tank and slowly pour it in.
I've started doing more frequent water changes (25%) to see if that helps. It helps for a day maybe then it goes back to a little cloudy.

I have the filter that came with the tank which has a black filter media thing in the front and a bag with charcoal behind it. Once the water started pouring out the side where the water is pulled in (meaning the filter was too clogged), I cleaned it once, then replace it with a new one (after rinsing the charcoal dust off). I know the goal is to keep good bacteria in so not sure if replacing the whole filter bag is a terrible idea or not...

I have an automatic feeder that feeds 3x a day. I tested the feeder over a plate and a small pinch worth of food comes out so I don't think they're being over fed but maybe its keeping the tank from being able to cycle?

I'll include some pictures of test strips and pics of the tank if that helps. Please let me know what else I could tell you to help point me in the right direction! Thanks in advance for any help...

 

[Aiken Drum]

First up. Test strips are no good, you cant trust the results. Get a liquid test kit.

But for now lets take the results for what they are. Your nitrite is at a toxic level. It looks to be about 1ppm, and it needs to be below 0.5ppm. So first up, 50% water change as soon as you are able. Test daily, if nitrite is above 0.5ppm then do sufficient water changes to bring the nitrite down below that level.

What is the ammonia?

Your KH seems on the low side. Low KH can cause your cycle to stall. KH is usually replenished by water changes, but can you provide a test of your tap water.

You need to have patience. Tanks take as long as they take to cycle. 8 weeks is typical, but can take much longer.

You are feeding way too much, especially since you arent cycled. Typically feed once a day as much as is eaten in 3 minutes. While you are cycling, half that, or only feed once every 2 days. Overfeeding puts more waste in the water, you arent cycled so the waste builds up. Fish wont starve, feed them less. And ditch the automatic feeder.

Those arent neon tetras. They are genetically modified fish trademarked as a glo-tetra. For info they are illegal to keep in much of the world. Glo-tetras are GM black skirt tetras and shouldnt be kept such a small tank. Black skirt tetras should be kept in groups of 6 or more fish in tanks at least 20 gallons. But whatever you do dont add more fish to your uncycled, too small tank. You need to consider a bigger tank or keeping fish more suited to your tank size.

The cloudiness is called a bacterial bloom, and its bacteria feeding on nutrient imbalances in the water until grow in numbers such that you can see them. You do a water change, remove some of the bacteria and nutrients and the water clears up. But because you arent cycled, the nutrients build up, the bacteria grows again, and you get cloudy water. It will clear up when the tank cycles.

Stop cleaning the tank and replacing the filter cartridges until you are cycled. Cleaning the tank removes the microbes you are trying to grow. Replacing the filter cartridges does the same. Just rinse off cartridges with dechlorinated water, and when you do your water changes dont vacuum the substrate. If you must wipe down the glass only wipe the front.

 

[Aiken Drum]

And can you take a photo of the bag of charcoal so we can confirm what it actually is.

 

[flipture]

And can you take a photo of the bag of charcoal so we can confirm what it actually is.

Sure thing, attaching here.

I went ahead and did a 50% water replacement and nothing else. Turned off the auto feeder (it was really only supposed to be used for while we were on vacation for a week right after we got the tank).

The test strip picture included is of the tap water untreated.

 

[flipture]

These two are of treated water and the tank after water swap. One without nitrites is treated water.

 

[flipture]

Bubbles (the little orange one) is now swimming around with his buddies after the water change. Definitely seems like an issue with the water making him antisocial...

 

[Aiken Drum]

The fish is stressed. A combination of living in toxic water, not being kept in a suitably sized aquarium, and not living in a suitable sized group of fish. As said you should return those fish to the store and get something more suited to your tank size or get a bigger tank.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I think your filter is either a tetra or topfin PF10? IMO that is on the small size for a 10 gallon tank and could be hindering your ability to cycle the tank. It would be OK if your tank was lightly or maybe moderately stocked, but you already have fish that will outgrow the tank and you have been overfeeding them. So.

The cartridge you are holding up is activated carbon. Activated carbon isnt needed in most tanks, it has limited use, it only lasts a short while before it needs replacing. They put those in the filtration so you are repeatedly going back to them, buying new cartridges. You can probably take that out, cut some sponge to fit the gap, and stuff the sponge in there. The sponge can be rinsed and reused for a number of years saving you tons of money. If you want to continue using the activated carbon cartridges then replace them monthly.

The biological filteration is provided by that black cartridge/ grid. Do not overclean that, thats where all those microbes live. If it looks like the grid is getting clogged up and restricting flow, then rinse it in dechlorinated water. Honestly i dont how that grid can support much of those microbes you need, which brings us back to your filter not really being big enough. There are also better ways to set these filters up than how the manufacturers tell you to.

I think you will get there with your cycle if you stop overfeeding, stop cleaning things too much. You just need patience and up the water changes until your cycle establishes. Dont add more fish than you already have, your setup wont cope. Longer term your tank isnt suitable for the fish you have and you should look at smaller fish that can be kept in a group 6 to 8 fish, or getting a bigger tank with suitable filtration for your glofish and increase the number of fish in the group, again 6 to 8 fish. A 20 gallon tank would also let you get a group of a different type of fish, maybe some corys that live in the bottom areas of the tank.

 

[Colin_T]

As Aiken mentioned, there's too much food going into the tank.
Cut the feeding back and do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. Then do a 75% water change once a week after that. You should also do a 75% water change any day you have an ammonia, or nitrite reading above 0ppm, or a nitrate reading above 20ppm.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

-----

If you go on holiday for a few days or a week or two, just feed the fish normally before you go and let them go hungry while you're away. Unlike mammals and birds that use most of the food they eat to keep warm, most fish tank their body temperature from the surrounding water. This means any food they eat is used for movement and growth. This allows fish to go for weeks or even months without food and not die.

 

[flipture]

I think your filter is either a tetra or topfin PF10? IMO that is on the small size for a 10 gallon tank and could be hindering your ability to cycle the tank. It would be OK if your tank was lightly or maybe moderately stocked, but you already have fish that will outgrow the tank and you have been overfeeding them. So.

The cartridge you are holding up is activated carbon. Activated carbon isnt needed in most tanks, it has limited use, it only lasts a short while before it needs replacing. They put those in the filtration so you are repeatedly going back to them, buying new cartridges. You can probably take that out, cut some sponge to fit the gap, and stuff the sponge in there. The sponge can be rinsed and reused for a number of years saving you tons of money. If you want to continue using the activated carbon cartridges then replace them monthly.

The biological filteration is provided by that black cartridge/ grid. Do not overclean that, thats where all those microbes live. If it looks like the grid is getting clogged up and restricting flow, then rinse it in dechlorinated water. Honestly i dont how that grid can support much of those microbes you need, which brings us back to your filter not really being big enough. There are also better ways to set these filters up than how the manufacturers tell you to.

I think you will get there with your cycle if you stop overfeeding, stop cleaning things too much. You just need patience and up the water changes until your cycle establishes. Dont add more fish than you already have, your setup wont cope. Longer term your tank isnt suitable for the fish you have and you should look at smaller fish that can be kept in a group 6 to 8 fish, or getting a bigger tank with suitable filtration for your glofish and increase the number of fish in the group, again 6 to 8 fish. A 20 gallon tank would also let you get a group of a different type of fish, maybe some corys that live in the bottom areas of the tank.

This is awesome information, thanks a ton. It stinks that we were a bit mislead by the people at the pet store. Or maybe I just didn't understand what they were saying. Regardless, we have become attached to these little guys so I'll start eyeing a larger tank (20g+) and filter.

Until then...
1) I'll get some foam (will this work? https://a.co/d/eNzyC62) and would you suggest simply taking the bio bag thing out and sticking the foam in there? Guessing the water pressure will kinda hold it in place? I prob won't do anything with the filter until the tank is cycled tho to disturb it as little as possible.

2) How often should I (or can I) do water changes to keep these guys happy/healthy? I see that Collin_T advised 75% water change and gravel clean every day for a week but Aiken Drum mentioned don't clean the gravel. The glass isn't getting too dirty so I can just leave that alone for a bit. To treat the water before I put it back in the tank, I have been using API Quick Start, and Imagitarium Water Conditioner. Do these sound like the right things?

3) I clearly need a better water testing setup. Is this the right thing (https://a.co/d/54AXbDX) or is there something better/more appropriate? I imagine I need to test for amonia, nitrites/nitrates, and PH, and chlorine, anything else?

4) I will go to feeding them every other day for a while to let things catch up.

 

[Aiken Drum]

It stinks that we were a bit mislead by the people at the pet store.

While advice from pet stores can often be negligent, in this instance i think give them a little slack. The filter is rated for your size of tank, i just personally think its on the small size. While the fish should really be in a bigger tank, your 10g isnt that far out. We regularly get members turning up with say 5 goldfish in 10g when they need 70+ gallons. People working in pet stores are usually just people doing a job to get paid, they arent hobbyists, have had minimal training etc.

1) I'll get some foam (will this work?

Yes. Thats just the job. Just cut to size and it should wedge into the gap.

2) How often should I (or can I) do water changes to keep these guys happy/healthy? I see that Collin_T advised 75% water change and gravel clean every day for a week but Aiken Drum mentioned don't clean the gravel.

I can see some benefit to gravel cleaning. It will get any uneaten food or detritus out of the substrate that will be contributing to poor water quality. But it will also remove those microbes you are trying to grow that will have established in the substrate. Personally i wouldnt gravel vac a tank that you are trying to cycle. Difference of opinion between me and Colin there.

To treat the water before I put it back in the tank, I have been using API Quick Start, and Imagitarium Water Conditioner. Do these sound like the right things?

I wouldnt keep dosing quickstart. It wont hurt anything, but probably isnt doing anything useful. Use up what you already bought.

The water conditioner is fine. If it didnt work your fish would just die. Prime is a better product and probably cheaper because its more concentrated. Use up what you have and then look at what gives you best value for money. Make sure you look at how many doses a bottle gives, not the volume of the bottle. You need to use more of some water conditioners than others.

3) I clearly need a better water testing setup. Is this the right thing (https://a.co/d/54AXbDX) or is there something better/more appropriate? I imagine I need to test for amonia, nitrites/nitrates, and PH, and chlorine, anything else?

Thats a good test kit to go for. Covers the essentials. You dont need to test for chlorine, trust your water conditioner.

 

[flipture]

Hey all, a few new updates.

I was able to get the Nitrites down to 0 and everything is testing right! The new test kit is much better. I did the 50-75% water changes daily or every other day and am feeding every other day or once a day at most right now.

Two problems seem to remain tho.

First, the water still gets pretty cloudy. I haven't changed out the filter bag for the foam filter yet so maybe that will help? Is the cloudy water simply a filter issue at this point?

Second, one of our little guys does not seem well. He is the one that was hiding under the rock thing while I was trying to get the tank to cycle. After doing the water change yesterday, I found him stuck to the filter intake. I bumped him with the handle of the net thing (extremely gently of course) and he swam off of it and started swimming around. He was however very weak looking. This morning I found him laying in the tentacles thing at the bottom not moving. I gave him another light poke and he started swimming around again. I don't see anything visibly wrong with him however I may be completely missing something. He is one of my kids fish (Bubbles) so I want to try to save him if at all possible. I have a short video. He is obviously the orange one...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/mi7KorUHnb55KSAi9

 

[Aiken Drum]

The cloudiness is a bacterial bloom, and is common in newly establishing tanks. Its bacteria feeding on excess nutrients in the water and growing in such numbers you can see them. It tends to clear up as the tank cycles and the nutrients get used used up.

It doesnt look all that bad. I bet if you put a nice black background on the back of the tank it wouldnt be as noticeable.

Your fish has been living in toxic water and will be suffering long term health issues. The only real solution to this is clean water and time. Fish have a tendancy to make life difficult for weak fish, and as said 4 tetras isnt a good sized group and will stressing the fish which could manifest as aggression towards a weak fish.

The fish looks smaller and skinnier than the other 3, maybe the other fish are preventing it from eating properly.

Isolating the fish into a quarantine tank would give the fish chance to recover. If thats not something you can do, then keeping the water as clean as you are able and hoping the fish recovers is all you can really do.

As said, longer term if you want happier and healthier fish you need a bigger tank and a bigger group. Even given that, the fish have historically been kept in toxic water, high nitrite causes organ failure, which leads to fish getting sick more easily, less likelihood of recovering, and shortened lifespans.

Glofish also are notoriously not hardy fish. They are genetically modified fish, bred from a small number of parent fish. This leads to poor genetics and generally poorer health than natural fish of the same species.

 

[flipture]

The cloudiness is a bacterial bloom, and is common in newly establishing tanks. Its bacteria feeding on excess nutrients in the water and growing in such numbers you can see them. It tends to clear up as the tank cycles and the nutrients get used used up.

It doesnt look all that bad. I bet if you put a nice black background on the back of the tank it wouldnt be as noticeable.

Your fish has been living in toxic water and will be suffering long term health issues. The only real solution to this is clean water and time. Fish have a tendancy to make life difficult for weak fish, and as said 4 tetras isnt a good sized group and will stressing the fish which could manifest as aggression towards a weak fish.

The fish looks smaller and skinnier than the other 3, maybe the other fish are preventing it from eating properly.

Isolating the fish into a quarantine tank would give the fish chance to recover. If thats not something you can do, then keeping the water as clean as you are able and hoping the fish recovers is all you can really do.

As said, longer term if you want happier and healthier fish you need a bigger tank and a bigger group. Even given that, the fish have historically been kept in toxic water, high nitrite causes organ failure, which leads to fish getting sick more easily, less likelihood of recovering, and shortened lifespans.

Glofish also are notoriously not hardy fish. They are genetically modified fish, bred from a small number of parent fish. This leads to poor genetics and generally poorer health than natural fish of the same species.

Ok great to know about the cloudiness. Will just keep it up and watch things.

For the little fish, is a large glass flower vase or something like that sufficient? I don't have another filter or heater unfortunately. Would he be ok with just a heater and water from the main tank? Could I just put him in a glass vase for an hour or so to feed him then put him back?

And I definitely plan on upgrading to a larger tank (maybe somewhere between 30-60G) before long.