Re-thinking my 75g wannabe stock

[kaz]

ok my first stock was going to be:

2 platy
10 oto
2 clown loach
1 leo
1 dwarf gourami
1 red fire gourami
6 neon tetra
6 cardinal tetras
1 pair of german blue ram
1 pair of bolivian rams
1 golden nugget pleco
5 shrimp
5 malaysian trumpet snail
4 to 6 bosami rainblows
1 pair of neon rainbows

Now I'm thinking if I should have the neon, pleco and only go with 5 oto's what are your thought on this? this new tank will be:

75g 48 1/2 x 18 1/2 x 20
light 1.5 to 2.0 wpg setup
lightly to medium planted tank
rock and driftwood or root
sand substrate
rena xp3

Does the tank need to have medium to high or low aeration?

 

[toddnbecka]

Hmm, where to start? In a planted tank, instead of 6neon/6 cardinals, go with 12 of either. Clown loaches are also schooling fish, and prefer larger groups. They grow to over 12", very slowly. Same with the rainbows, more of 1 type is better than a couple of several diff. ones. In order to establish pairs of ANY cichlid, it's best to start w/6 juvies, and let them pair off, then return the extras. The 5 MTS will become 500, just so you know... What is 1 leo? Do you mean leporinus? They are nasty fish, aggressive, and grow very large. Shrimp will probably be eaten, sooner or later they molt, and are vulnerable to hungry cichlids.

 

[kaz]

Hmm, where to start? In a planted tank, instead of 6neon/6 cardinals, go with 12 of either. Clown loaches are also schooling fish, and prefer larger groups. They grow to over 12", very slowly. Same with the rainbows, more of 1 type is better than a couple of several diff. ones. In order to establish pairs of ANY cichlid, it's best to start w/6 juvies, and let them pair off, then return the extras. The 5 MTS will become 500, just so you know... What is 1 leo? Do you mean leporinus? They are nasty fish, aggressive, and grow very large. Shrimp will probably be eaten, sooner or later they molt, and are vulnerable to hungry cichlids.

I never even thought about getting more for the pair off and whats left return this is a great idea.
I'm thinking of not wanting to overcrowd the tank so maybe then get rid of snails, shrimp and tetras?

 

[toddnbecka]

The tetras won't ovecrowd the tank, and a school of small, active fish mid-water will complement the top-water rainbows. They will all provide good dithers for the cichlids, and all prefer soft, neutral-little lower pH. Not a problem in a planted tank. The MTS are useful for moving the sand around, since they burrow by day. A different species of botia that doesn't grow as large would be better than clown loaches, also less expensive for a group. All loaches eat snails, though MTS are almost impossible to eliminate completely. Gourami's are best kept in pairs, a 75 should be big enough for 2 pairs to establish separate territories. They aren't as difficult to pair off as cichlids, 1m/1f should work with those.
Rams, neons or cardinals, rainbows, gourami's, oto's, botias, the pleco, and MTS would make a nicely stocked 75. 2 Platys won't make any difference one way or the other.
The rena xp3 maxes at 350 gph, will be less as it becomes loaded up, also depending on what you put in it for media. I have a fluval 304 on a 55, along with 2 AC powerheads running reverse-flow through the UG filter. You won't use an UG on a sand setup, and sand EATS impellers, so a good air pump would be good for additional circulation.

 

[kaz]

thanks todd for all your info, what media would be nice for such a tank setup? would rena 300 work or get one model less? what is the best end accessory for the air pump, the part in the water? my plan since I can only hold one tank in the house is to move my current stock into the 75g and then add the rainblows, tetras, snails and rams later this is good?

 

[toddnbecka]

Always go for more, not less filtration. Water circulation is critical. An air stone or bubble wand for the air pump, the tetra deep water pumps are good for a 75, and they have a lifetime guarantee. Moving the stock to a new tank is fine, just remember to move the substrate too, to seed the new biofilter. Running the canister on the current setup would get it established, before moving everything into the new tank. You can always add more fish later, just don't double the number all at once. Allow some time for the biofilter to adjust to the increased load before adding the rest of the fish. A few at a time is best, after you have the new tank established with the current stock.

 

[Creamhorses]

" I have a fluval 304 on a 55, along with 2 AC powerheads running reverse-flow through the UG filter."

Please explain what you're doing with your UGF. Are you pumping water down your drop tubes.....if so, doesn't that destroy the process that the UGF is supposed to provide?

I have 4 drops in this 90g....been thinking about putting 2 Penguin 550's -one on each corner, on a timer to run @ night when the lights are off. The inner 2 would remain with air stones lifting the water.

Thanks for any comments

Dave

 

[toddnbecka]

I used PVC elbows and large diameter vinyl tubing to adapt the powerheads to run into the lift tubes. The powerheads have a reverse-flow feature on them, but circulate much less water if used that way. The powerheads also have quickfilter cartridges attached to keep fish from being caught in the intake/impeller. The water flows through the gravel either way, circulating it to provide biofiltration. With reverse flow, the debris isn't drawn down into the gravel. It gets picked up by the canister filter or the quickfilters. (I wrapped bulk filter material around the plastic cores, because the filter cartridge that comes with them clogs very quickly) When you siphon the gravel, the debris in close to the surface, or already caught in the prefilters and canister filter. It's easier to keep the tank clean, since the gravel doesn't load up. I also cut a piece of bulk filter material the same size as the bottom of the tank. It is sandwiched between the filter plates and the gravel bed. Much less gravel, much more surface area for bacteria to colonize. The filter media layer also prevents cichlids from digging the gravel up, and messing up the UG filter flow through the gravel bed. This setup eliminates the problems associated with UG filters, particularly when keeping cichlids.
Penguin powerheads have a reverse-flow adapter kit available that works the same way. I simply got a good deal on a lot of 10 AC powerheads, kept some, and sold the rest. AC powerheads are also rated for more GPH than penguins.
I have another 55 that is set up with the intakes from 2 AC 500 hob's running the UG filter, one on each filter plate. The area under the plates stays clear, and the sponge blocks catch whatever makes it through the gravel. I still get a lot more debris out of the gravel when I siphon that tank though.

 

[Creamhorses]

Toddnbecca

Well that is very interesting indeed!! I might consider trying something like that reverse flow through UGF as part of a multi-filter system, but I'd set it up so that the water being pumped down the drop tubes came from a sump or the like that had a fine filtering material.

I do like the idea of less gravel, and having debris stay where a vacuum can pick it up more easily though. Gonna give this idea a lot of thought, which I'm sure you did. It sounds like it is working for you.

Dave