Should I be concerned?

[nlifs]

Thanks again for all of your help!

Interesting comment re. city water ... pretty sure that my tap water is the same as the fish store, and the fish looked pretty happy/active there. I downloaded a copy of the water testing report from the city - any thoughts about what minerals I might want to look for to see if the levels are off?

So you recommend maintaining the salt content? I was thinking of trying to wean them off of it after a week or so by starting to do small water changes and see how they react. Just because that will leave more options open for future (e.g. if we want to introduce live plants ... I was also thinking of putting in some corys at some point). If the fish stop eating or otherwise look unhappy, we could bring the salt content back up - what do you think of that strategy?

I also noticed another fish (one of the females) spending a lot of time at the surface ... not sure if it's the salt or something else bothering her ... she does seem to eat fine ...

Re. the feces, haven't seen any recently, at least not coming out of any fish. Would I be able to see it on the gravel or something? Not sure exactly what I'm looking for ...

It's frustrating that these issues are so difficult to diagnose. All I can do is measure the water parameters (which seem OK) and try different things, I guess.

Thanks again for your sage advice as I try to get this tank established!

 

[nlifs]

Another update

So the male fish that has been the subject of this thread has been behaving a bit strangely today ... Instead of swimming normally using his tail fin, he has been shaking his head back and forth as well.

Seems similar to what's been described as "shimmying" ...

What to do now, if anything? More salt (in case he's lacking minerals), less salt, etc.?

Note that the two females are not exhibiting this behaviour.

Why are these issues so hard to pin down?

 

[Andy Sager]

So the male fish that has been the subject of this thread has been behaving a bit strangely today ... Instead of swimming normally using his tail fin, he has been shaking his head back and forth as well.

Seems similar to what's been described as "shimmying" ...

What to do now, if anything? More salt (in case he's lacking minerals), less salt, etc.?

Note that the two females are not exhibiting this behaviour.

Why are these issues so hard to pin down?

Let me start by saying this: Fish keeping is an art. Not everybody is successful doing it. Fish keeping can be hard because we want to keep all kinds of fish together but the reality is, not every fish can be kept together and nothing we can do will change that. Fish do not usually take change very easily. Acclimating styles are dependent on the type(s) of fish and where the fish is coming from. And the #1 problem with fish keeping is that when they are sick, no matter how many times or ways you ask them what's wrong, they never answer you. So it takes years of experiences and great resources to do your best to figure out what is wrong and how to help them. Sometimes you will get it right the first try and sometimes you won't. That's just part of the learning curve.

Now, having said all that, there are multiple conditions that have similar symptoms so it takes deeper dives into the symptoms to find that one or two symptom that differentiate this disease from that disease. There is an excellent old book that has a diagnostic flow chart that I use and I have not found a better one online as of today. It might be out there but I haven't found it ( and I look. ) The book is Handbook of Fish Diseases by Dieter Untergasser. (https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/handb...tergasser/334142/#edition=3618411&idiq=324139) It's an older book so some of the medications it recommends are no longer available but just the diagnostic charts alone are worth the price of the book. Once you know what you are dealing with, you can search for what's available today to treat it. It's also available on a number of sites so search for it on Amazon, Ebay, Thriftbooks, Abe Books, Biblio, Etsy (the list is endless.) to get the best price.

To your questions: This is what fish poo should look like:

When it comes to water, assume nothing. I had a hatchery that was on the border of a municiple water system so my water was different from the pet store down the block and across the street. Also, fish stores may have filters for their water to make it more suitable for the fish. You can ask your local store what kind of water they are using and what they are doing to it.

The fish sitting at the surface may just mean she's waiting for more food to come because she's figured out that it comes from top of the tank. As long as the fish is eating, I would not be concerned about it. If they go up to the surface and are breathing heavily, that is a concern and water tests need to be done and an increase in the aeration needs to be done or other actions may be required.

The issue with the male can be from finally starting to get food into his system. This is why you want to feed small amounts more often than one large meal. You don't want the fish " pigging out" in his current condition. If the shimmying continues and never stops, that could be a sign of something else internal.

As I said in my opening paragraph, you can't keep all kinds of fish together. This is a common mistake of new aquarists. It's best to make a list of the fish you want to have in the tank then research the requirements of each specie. ( tank size, water parameters, temperature, hardness, etc. ) You then pick the ones that have matching requirements. That is how you make an easy enjoyable tank vs a problematic tank. If you want species that require different parameters, you should be looking at getting another tank.

As for plants, there are many plants that can handle the amount of salt you are using but keep in mind, Platies do eat some live plant varieties, especially if there is a lack of vegetable matter in their diet so you need to pick your plants carefully. Also, there are 3 types of plants, Low light, Mid light and High light, so the types of plants you keep will also depend on your lighting.

As for your salt level, 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water is considered a very low dose so there are a number of catfish species that can handle that amount.

You also have to remember that your tank is not cycled as yet so that too is going to create issues as you go through that process. Some of the fish's reactions that look like disease will be due to the presence of ammonia or nitrite in the water and will need to be addressed via water changes.


I think I've covered all your issues. Hope this helps.

 

[nlifs]

Another update

Hello again,

So two of my platys (one male and one female) have now taken to lying on the bottom of the tank (or hidden in decor) for almost the entire day. If I wave a net right next to them, they swim away, only to settle down somewhere else. They are barely eating (if at all), as best I can tell ... I'm not holding out much hope for them at this point, although they've been like this for a few days already ...

I can't bring myself to euthanize them but ideally don't want them to die in the tank and possibly 'leak' parasites. I don't have another tank to put them in either but I can find a plastic container of sorts and fill it with tank water for them to be in until they expire. Is that a proper way to go about it?

There's one remaining female who is generally swimming around fine. Unfortunately, I think she may have already caught whatever they had ... her poop last week was normal (solid/thick) but over the last couple of days has been white and stringy ... still swimming around and eating though.

Which leads to another question - the tank is not yet cycled (although it might be starting ... ammonia is about 1 and nitrites are above zero) and I was wondering if my cycle will stall if I lose 2 out of 3 fish. Can the tank cycle with only one fish in it or should I add something like the Tetra SafeStart Plus?

Your advice, as usual, is greatly appreciated.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hello again,

So two of my platys (one male and one female) have now taken to lying on the bottom of the tank (or hidden in decor) for almost the entire day. If I wave a net right next to them, they swim away, only to settle down somewhere else. They are barely eating (if at all), as best I can tell ... I'm not holding out much hope for them at this point, although they've been like this for a few days already ...

I can't bring myself to euthanize them but ideally don't want them to die in the tank and possibly 'leak' parasites. I don't have another tank to put them in either but I can find a plastic container of sorts and fill it with tank water for them to be in until they expire. Is that a proper way to go about it?

There's one remaining female who is generally swimming around fine. Unfortunately, I think she may have already caught whatever they had ... her poop last week was normal (solid/thick) but over the last couple of days has been white and stringy ... still swimming around and eating though.

Which leads to another question - the tank is not yet cycled (although it might be starting ... ammonia is about 1 and nitrites are above zero) and I was wondering if my cycle will stall if I lose 2 out of 3 fish. Can the tank cycle with only one fish in it or should I add something like the Tetra SafeStart Plus?

Your advice, as usual, is greatly appreciated.

The cycling process will not stall as long as there is an ammonia source. What you are doing is creating a bed of microbes/ bacteria that convert the toxic ammonia and nitrites into almost totally non toxic nitrates. But here's the catch, the " bacteria bed" is a living breathing organism which grows and shrinks to match the amount of available ammonia and nitrites present so it's not really a " one and done" thing. If you add more fish, the bed will grow. If you lose or remove fish, the bed will shrink. It will only totally die if there are no ammonia producers present. You just have to remember that if you cycle the tank with just the one fish, then it will be cycled for 1 fish not a tank load of fish. Every fish you add after the cycling process is done will cause a spike in ammonia and nitrites until the bacteria bed catches up. It happens rather quickly but whether the ammonia and nitrites reach toxic levels again all depends on how large of a strain you placed on the bacteria bed with the new stock.
When doing fish in cycling, you control the amount of ammonia and nitrites by doing water changes. What this does however is create a smaller bacteria bed because, as I explained above, the bed grows and shrinks based on the amount of ammonia present. In the old days, all tanks were cycled doing the "fish in" method so weekly water changes were mandatory in order to keep the fish alive. Everything after the cycling process was finished was done slowly. Then came the advent of the " bacteria in a bottle" to help people fill the tank with fish more quickly. The problem is, many of those products didn't really work or work well. I have tried many over the years but only found one that I recommend to people. That is Fritzyme #7 for freshwater. I do not have personal experience with many of the products on today's market but I do not read many good reviews by people who use them. But in your case, there's a catch
You are dealing with an uncycled tank and most likely sick fish that are sick not from the poor water quality. If you can't/won't treat the condition the fish have, it makes little sense to rush the cycling process. If the fish survive, great for the bacteria bed but bad for the next fish you add to the tank. If the fish do not survive, they will still help the cycling process if you bury the fish in your substrate because they will be producing ammonia as they decay. Yes, the expected intestinal worms will be released and any eggs they may have laid will infect any living fish still in the tank so you are actually better off if all the fish eventually die and are buried in the tank so that the worm eggs will not have a live host while the tank is cycling. (You don't start counting the weeks for the parasites to die until all the fish are dead.) No, it won't be a nice scene for the kids to have to view an empty tank while all this is happening but other than stripping the tank down and sterilizing everything and starting again with healthy fish, it's the most sensible way to go forward.

One of the amazing things about aquatic ecosystems is that no matter how polluted they get, given enough time, they will create the microbes to make the ecosystem safe for life again. Unfortunately, you can not know how much time it will take until after it's done. Could take weeks, months or even years. You just won't know. This is why many people just restart the tank.

Lastly, if the fish is eating but the poo is white and stringy, that's a typical sign of intestinal worms so whatever that first one had seems to have spread. It's reversal from acting sickly may have been from the added salt or the worms may have swelled with eggs causing the distress and when the eggs were expelled, the pressure was reduced so the fish was felling better. ( No different than that first " dump" after being constipated for a person. ) It's tough to say but if you did not reduce the salt level from when the fish was acting better and the healthy fish are now sickly, it's spreading. The stress from the poorer water quality is not helping the situation. It's only going to get worse if they survive because they will continually get reinfected.

 

[nlifs]

As usual, I'm very thankful for the detailed and thoughtful reply. Will certainly take all of this into consideration.

One thing you mentioned at the end caught my attention ... I actually did do a couple of 30% water changes since I originally added the salt, and I had not replaced the salt at the time. That means that the salt content would have gone down by about half ...

Could that be contributing to the behaviour I'm seeing? Should I add some more salt immediately to see if it helps (and perhaps even increase the dosage from what I gave originally)?

 

[Andy Sager]

As usual, I'm very thankful for the detailed and thoughtful reply. Will certainly take all of this into consideration.

One thing you mentioned at the end caught my attention ... I actually did do a couple of 30% water changes since I originally added the salt, and I had not replaced the salt at the time. That means that the salt content would have gone down by about half ...

Could that be contributing to the behaviour I'm seeing? Should I add some more salt immediately to see if it helps (and perhaps even increase the dosage from what I gave originally)?

Yes. You need to replenish the salt when doing water changes to fit the amount of water being changed at a rate of 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water or fraction thereof if you are changing less than 5 gallons of water. So for example, if you were to change only 2 gallons of water, you would add just under 1/2 tablespoon of salt. If you were to change 10 gallons of water, you would add back 2 tablespoons of salt. Salt does not dissipate so you never need to add back the original dose unless you do a 100% water change. That could explain the 2 fish staying on the bottom but does not explain the white stringy poo for the fish that is eating.