stumped

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krae

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Jun 17, 2023
Messages
7
Hello, everyone:) I've a 40g breeder, fairly new. I started it up about 8 weeks ago, using ammonia for fishless cycling. The tank currently has 12 emperor tetras, two twig catfish, 2 baby red lizard whiptail catfish, 1 phantom green pleco and 6 candy cane tetras.
After two weeks, two of my emperors have shredded tails. I have seen NO aggression, and I can't think what would tackle two adult emperors out of this crew. The candy canes are not even full-sized - they're juveniles.
I am stumped. Any ideas?
ph 7.4, ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 30.
 
Hello, everyone:) I've a 40g breeder, fairly new. I started it up about 8 weeks ago, using ammonia for fishless cycling. The tank currently has 12 emperor tetras, two twig catfish, 2 baby red lizard whiptail catfish, 1 phantom green pleco and 6 candy cane tetras.
After two weeks, two of my emperors have shredded tails. I have seen NO aggression, and I can't think what would tackle two adult emperors out of this crew. The candy canes are not even full-sized - they're juveniles.
I am stumped. Any ideas?
ph 7.4, ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 30.

Maybe I can help you off the stump. ;) It's 99.95% the Candy Cane Tetras from your mix. ( The .05% is that the fish have fin and tail rot. ) Tetras can be fin nippers at any age and the Hyphessobrycon varieties are notorious for doing this if crowded or in too small of an aquarium. It sounds like since the Candy Canes are the smaller group, they would be the most defensive and since Emperor Tetras are not the most aggressive, they will be the recipients and not the aggressors.

Hope this helps your stump. ;) (y)
 
Maybe I can help you off the stump. ;) It's 99.95% the Candy Cane Tetras from your mix. ( The .05% is that the fish have fin and tail rot. ) Tetras can be fin nippers at any age and the Hyphessobrycon varieties are notorious for doing this if crowded or in too small of an aquarium. It sounds like since the Candy Canes are the smaller group, they would be the most defensive and since Emperor Tetras are not the most aggressive, they will be the recipients and not the aggressors.

Hope this helps your stump. ;) (y)

Thanks so much:) The emperors I've had a good long while and it's not rot for sure, but the candy canes are new and I've never had them before. I'll add some more and see what happens. I wonder how many would take care of things? I'll check online but curious as to what you think.
 
Thanks so much:) The emperors I've had a good long while and it's not rot for sure, but the candy canes are new and I've never had them before. I'll add some more and see what happens. I wonder how many would take care of things? I'll check online but curious as to what you think.
Adding more Candy Canes will probably not solve the problem since you will just have more fish that can attack the emperors. You need to change one of the species and add others that match their personalities. Not all Tetras are safe to mix together. Generally, the fish with the same body shapes get along. You have an elongated one ( emperors) and a circular one ( candy canes.) Circular species tend to be more aggressive and fin nippy but that's not all species of circular ones. You really have to do your research before mixing Tetras. Keep in mind that your Candy canes are related to piranhas. :eek: In fact , all Tetras are related to Piranhas ( some just more distantly than others. :whistle: :eek: ;) )
 
Adding more Candy Canes will probably not solve the problem since you will just have more fish that can attack the emperors. You need to change one of the species and add others that match their personalities. Not all Tetras are safe to mix together. Generally, the fish with the same body shapes get along. You have an elongated one ( emperors) and a circular one ( candy canes.) Circular species tend to be more aggressive and fin nippy but that's not all species of circular ones. You really have to do your research before mixing Tetras. Keep in mind that your Candy canes are related to piranhas. :eek: In fact , all Tetras are related to Piranhas ( some just more distantly than others. :whistle: :eek: ;) )

I've been observing the tank, and the candy canes don't seem to be the problem. They are juveniles and the emperors are grown and larger than the cc tetras- at this point, anyway, I don't see the cc tetras bothering the emperors at all. I did neglect to say that 6 of the emperors are from my elderly mother's tank, rehomed recently back to my tanks, though still all from the same original pair that birthed them. And all the tail injuries have happened to males only. AND I've been noting that they're more raucous than normal since the two batches of them came together.

I've kept emperors on and off for years, and they're more aggressive than the internet leads you to believe, though with enough space, in my experience, the males mostly keep it confined to chasing and arguing with other males. Never before have I seen them with as serious of the injuries I've seen in this tank (I do know if you crowd them a little, the aggression can go up).

In short, they're the only fish I see sniping at each other in the tank, so my current theory is that the new group and the old group of males are fighting for dominance. What's still a question mark for me is the level of injury that two of them have sustained on their tails. Never seen that before.

Most any schooling fish feels better in a larger school, and six is kind of a minimal school, so it feels entirely logical to think that adding more of the candy canes might make them feel more secure. But either way, I've just seen no nipping behavior from these juveniles as of yet.

If I see any new injuries (I've moved two of the emperors with the most obviously injured tails into quarantine in a 10 gallon and added salt with an eye to their recovery), I'll probably post a video of the tank. But so far, since removing the two, it seems a bit more like business as usual between the remaining males. And no new injuries.

I haven't read any article or anybody's experience talking about serious interactions between emperors and cc's (though I haven't scoured the aquarium groups for that). In general research on the 'net, they're both called "peaceful" though it's mentioned that the cc's are nippers. As I've said, I only have prior experience with emperors, and they can bully on a dime if you're not careful with them and smaller tetras.

Thanks for the help, btw! I've read a lot as a lurker on the aquarium groups, but never really participated before.
 
Yeah, that was kinda some important info you left out. ;) ;) I've dealt with and bred a lot of those type Tetras and believe me, most all of the circular ones will nip if given the chance. And Yes, fighting amongst males also happens. When they are schooling, a pair will separate from the school to spawn. The male is usually the winner of all the battles. The way to avoid conflict is to keep schools of single genders so they don't fight trying to impress the other gender. ;)
 
It was ridiculously important and I was being forgetful for sure. I have a mix of male and female emperors because I started with one pair that just kept having babies and babies and more babies... eventually I gave the newest ones away in batches of six. Once, kid you not, I transferred a small bit of java moss from the emperor tank into a Betta tank and was startled some time after to see a baby emperor in with the Betta
 
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It was ridiculously important and I was being forgetful for sure. I have a mix of male and female emperors because I started with one pair that just kept having babies and babies and more babies... eventually I gave the newest ones away in batches of six. Once, kid you not, I transferred a small bit of java moss from the emperor tank into a Betta tank and was startled some time after to see a baby emperor in with the Betta
That's a good story about the moss. It happens frequently with all the live plants being sold and housed with fish. Egg scatterers scatter them E V E R Y W H E R E!!! :lol: Eggs are much easier to move than fry. It's how so many snails get moved around too. :facepalm:
So you'll know for the future that we need as much info as possible, past water parameters , to best advise about a situation. No harm, no foul on this one. ;) (y)(y)
So you know, when schooling fish, single gender schools act differently than mixed schools. Mixed schools are good for identifying genders because the males will fight to breed ( showing their best colors) while females will plump up with eggs to encourage the males to look their best for them. In my hatchery, I kept all the Tetras in single gender tanks so that they bred almost immediately when they were introduced into the breeding tank. (y)
 
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